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2009-12-31 Expert: Alexander Dinerchtein Rate: (4.4)  17 ratings

Korean Insei League on KGS - Join now! (updated on Dec31)


Korean-style Insei League on KGS.

 

They have almost the same system in largest Korean schools: Heo Jahghei, 9p academy, Kwon Kapmyun’s academy, Yangchun Dail, Lee Sedol’s school and others

There are 5 groups: A, B, C, D and E. A is the strongest one

Students of 10-kyu and stronger are allowed taking part

 

Each group consists of 10 students, who play with each other (maximum 4 games per month with the same opponent) and 2 teachers (teachers don’t meet with each other). There is no pairing – students can meet each other any time and put the results in online table, which counts the winning % and current places automatically.

 Teachers usually play their games simultaneously on 4-5 boards.  They play even games with A group members, 2-stones games with B group, 3-stones games with C group, 4 stones games with D group and 5 stones with E group

 

There are 2 teachers, both studied Go in Korea for a very long time:

1. Alexander Dinerchtein, 3p (breakfast on KGS) – the owner of the peaceful playing style – he will teach you how to play well in fuseki and yose.

     

2. Ilya Shikshin 7d (roln111 on KGS) –with the aggressive playing style – he will make you  stronger at fighting.

 

You will see that they have completely different styles of playing handicap games.

 

At the end of the each month best 2 students (with highest winning %) promote to the next group, and 2 students with less impressive results go down.

 

The entry fee is 95 usd/ month (including 8 simultaneous games, 16 lectures and up to 11 reviews)

 

All groups have own prize fund, made from entry fees:

A group: 1-place: 200$, 2-place: 100$, 3-place: 50$

B, C, D, E groups: 1-place: 100$, 2-place: 50$

 

Places are decided by the highest winning percentage. To win the prize you have to play

at least 10 games (from 44 possible games) per month with at least 5 different opponents

 

Teachers can take cash prizes too, so they are also interested in winning their games in simultaneous. Teachers are not allowed to take prizes, if they play less than 60% of all games. Also teachers have big bonuses, if they play 80, 90 and 100% of all games - you can be sure, that each teacher will try to play as many games as possible (to get these bonuses)

 

Time control:

30 min + 30 sec byoyomi- 5 times for insei vs insei games

30 min + 60 sec byoyomi -5 times for for simultaneous

 

At the end of the each year the student, who showed best results (who won A-league most times) will get a 1000$ grant, which can be used for private lessons, offline study trips to Korea, Japan or China, Go books or Go equipment. Teachers are not allowed to get this grant.

 

 25% of your games will be reviewed offline by Alexander Dinerchtein. More games you play – more reviews you get! You will get these reviews once a week by e-mail.

 

**********************************************

We plan to start the league from Jan, 1 – 2010


4 professional players (Chun Pongjho 8p, An Younggil 8p, Lee Hajin 3p and Cho Mikyung 1p) joined the project as lectors. They will review your games online in audio format. We will have 16 lectures in total every month. Alexander Dinerchtein, 3p will give some lectures too, including 4 lectures in Russian


Last week-end of the month is for Blitz games.
If you was very busy during the month, you can play lot of blitz games at the end and get your reviews.
Main time control for last Saturday and Sunday of every month is 3 times shorter than usual:
10 min, 30 sec byoyomi - 5 times for insei vs insei games
10 min, 60 sec byoyomi - 5 times for simultaneous


 For registration please e-mail us (backpast@gmail.com) these details:

1.Name

2.KGS ID

3.Country

4.Rank (you must be 10-kyu or stronger!)

5.Goal in Go

6.Preferred method of payment (Paypal, Moneybookers,Webmoney, WesternUnion etc)


 

 December 12: We already accepted 50 players. We don't plan to add more groups, so others will be in the waiting line.

Our waiting line is unusual.  If you pay early, but there are no empty places available, you are allowed to observe all audio lectures free of charge till you join us in February or March, when we get vacant places.

If we decide to stop the project, you will get 100% money back.

So, still accepting new members!


December 29:
If you have an account on DGS and prefer slow games,
you can get your teaching games here, instead of KGS. You can play all 8 games (or just few)
with both teachers at the same time for an extra fee $2 per game.
Time control must be set as 30 days absolute (no byoyomi, with clocks
running on week-ends).
It means about 3-4 moves per game every day.
Such games will be count as standard simultaneous games on KGS and
must be played on the standard handicap for your division.
On DGS you can also meet the members of your group - we accept
the results of such games. As you may know we also accept offline games -
you can play even in the local club (if you live in the same city)
- but please write and upload the SGF of your game (at least 100 moves)

December 31:
Everything is ready. Our website: http://insei-league.com/

 



Comments:

nef
7k ( RU ) 2009-11-30 08:11
My wife would participate in lower tier ("D") group (if for example D group consists from players 10k-4k) for 50$/monthly =)
Imperator
2009-11-28 03:11
Peter Dijkema:

Indeed, and this would be great if everybody would have the spare time to play that much and keep that kind of level of playing going on month after month. Something that is much easier to do in another environment than this. Say by going to Korea and play in the real insei league.

I feel it can become not only problematic, but cumbersome for some people to play enough to get good value for money. Or even get matches going often enough in their group. It is not going to be this way for everybody.

But having a sort of lower tier group also going I feel wont hamper or harm the "proper" online KGS insei league.

And it could be a good stepping stone for some people to get more interested in Go.
danigabi
6d ( AR ) 2009-11-27 10:11
Hey, I registered and im from latin america :).

rayheart
3k ( CL ) 2009-11-27 05:11
Hi again well i wouuld tell you in the next month if i would enter to the league ^^ i have to get some money first xD
breakfast
2009-11-27 11:11
Q.When would be the matches with the teachers? (all the thursdays for example)
A. We will try different days and time, including week-ends

Q.Right now how many people is registered?.
A. 27

Q. If someone wons a league... with the money that he gets by winning it could be used to pay the next month?
A. Yes, for sure

Q.how many latinamerican players are registered?
A. 0 right now

Q. How you will decided to put players in the league? By kgs ranking?
A. Yes, by KGS rank in January, later by their results

Q. I have to pay before the month or could i pay like in the half of the month? (15 of every month for example).
A. I will ask to pay during the first week of the league
Peter Dijkema
( NL ) 2009-11-27 10:11
Calculate costs in time and money:
if you play all 44 games (one hour plus each), it will take you - including the 11 free comments - up to two hours every day. That's about two dollars a game. Or one euro per hour. That's very cheap, even if you are not rich, like me ;-)
rayheart
3k ( CL ) 2009-11-27 02:11
Hi, im very interested in enter to this iniciative i find it very good, but i have some questions:
-When would be the matches with the teachers? (all the thursdays for example)
-Right now how many people is registered?.
-If someone wons a league... with the money that he gets by winning it could be used to pay the next month?
- how many latinamerican players are registered?
- HOw you will decided to put players in the league? By kgs ranking?

And the time issues is the next thing that im worried. But i think that with some time that will be fixed :P

Ah something more... I have to pay before the month or could i pay like in the half of the month? (15 of every month for example). Well i would be very thankfull if you could answre me yhis questions
rayheart
3k ( CL ) 2009-11-27 02:11
Hi, im very interested in enter to this iniciative i find it very good, but i have some questions:
-When would be the matches with the teachers? (all the thursdays for example)
-Right now how many people is registered?.
-If someone wons a league... with the money that he gets by winning it could be used to pay the next month?
- how many latinamerican players are registered?
- HOw you will decided to put players in the league? By kgs ranking?

And the time issues is the next thing that im worried. But i think that with some time that will be fixed :P

Ah something more... I have to pay before the month or could i pay like in the half of the month? (15 of every month for example). Well i would be very thankfull if you could answre me yhis questions
Imperator
2009-11-27 12:11
Danigabi: You are missing my point. You said price was not an issue, but for a lot of players it is that. You where talking about people willing to pay this much for improvement as justification for price. You are basically stating people wanting to improve a lot are willing to pay this price. What I am saying is that many people will not see the same value for money playing this league as for example they would getting lectures and offline reviews. (Or even saving up for a trip.) Since these things are easier to work around a working mans schedule.

I am not saying there should be a middle ground that changes the core concept of what this league is trying to achieve, but trying to find a working compromise that ensures that the league will be sustainable. Or at least listen to what people are saying.

But thinking that this is in any way comparable to IRL korean insei leagues is of course ridiculous. So adapting it to an online world is needed.

If breakfast gets 30 players now. Great! I wish him the greatest luck with this, and as I said before, it is a great initiative. But just waving of players as "not serious enough" just because they have a life besides Go but still want so seriously improve is again, making you seem presumptuous about peoples motivations.

I do not want to draw my personal life into this, but I do spend quite a lot of time, and a good deal of money to improve in Go, but being a westerner it is not feasible at the time for me to make any money from playing Go. To get to the point where you can hold teaching games etc. you need to work hard, but also balance your life. Not everybody is in the same life-situation as you are dangabi, but that does not mean that they are not willing to spend money or the time they have besides working and family trying to improve. It just means that leagues like this is something that would become a logistical nightmare for them to actually get any worth out of. And there is your "value for money", since they might rather find other opportunities better suited for their life.

What I am afraid if, is that this league will become to exclusive and therefor will have a problem being sustainable. Being a little more inclusive would meant that it might actually last and not die out as so many other projects like this.

I am not saying you he should water the league out. But just shrugging of other peoples opinions as wrong just because they do not match your opinion of what modus operandi we should have regarding Go is not so constructive. If it does not seem here that peoples opinions are valid this league might end up being to elitist or exclusive.

A lot of countries here in Europe need something to pull players up. More stuff like this should happen and it is good that there is growth. But making things to exclusive or elitist can be damaging. DDK or even SDK players getting into Go just seeing a culture based on exclusion is not the right direction to go in. This being a big problem with Chess here locally, and one of the reasons why I stopped playing Chess and started playing Go.

Although I do not find Go generally to be anything other then inclusive. I would personally much rather see this league maybe working on being more inclusive and trying to be more adaptable.

Easy things to make it more inclusive:

Have the different groups have different starting costs. Having a lower tier group that costs less, but having less perks is a great way to make this much much better. Then lower ranked players would really have something to work for. Price there could easily be a "free" or cheaper month in higher tier or something like that. This is just of the top of my head.
danigabi
6d ( AR ) 2009-11-26 08:11
Imperator:

What you suggest is changing the core objective of this league.

I dont know if making an online league for a middleground between competitives and hobbyists is good or not. I know there are many online leagues that have failed, and they were absolutely free.

Do not mix unfair price, with high costs. Getting a ferrari 0km at 15kU$S is cheap even if it is a lot of money.

This is a HIGH VALUE league. Reducing costs implies lowering the value. Players that want to be first and strongest look at high value, not low price. For this market, i think price is not an issue.
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