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2009-12-31 Expert: Alexander Dinerchtein Rate: (4.4)  17 ratings

Korean Insei League on KGS - Join now! (updated on Dec31)


Korean-style Insei League on KGS.

 

They have almost the same system in largest Korean schools: Heo Jahghei, 9p academy, Kwon Kapmyun’s academy, Yangchun Dail, Lee Sedol’s school and others

There are 5 groups: A, B, C, D and E. A is the strongest one

Students of 10-kyu and stronger are allowed taking part

 

Each group consists of 10 students, who play with each other (maximum 4 games per month with the same opponent) and 2 teachers (teachers don’t meet with each other). There is no pairing – students can meet each other any time and put the results in online table, which counts the winning % and current places automatically.

 Teachers usually play their games simultaneously on 4-5 boards.  They play even games with A group members, 2-stones games with B group, 3-stones games with C group, 4 stones games with D group and 5 stones with E group

 

There are 2 teachers, both studied Go in Korea for a very long time:

1. Alexander Dinerchtein, 3p (breakfast on KGS) – the owner of the peaceful playing style – he will teach you how to play well in fuseki and yose.

     

2. Ilya Shikshin 7d (roln111 on KGS) –with the aggressive playing style – he will make you  stronger at fighting.

 

You will see that they have completely different styles of playing handicap games.

 

At the end of the each month best 2 students (with highest winning %) promote to the next group, and 2 students with less impressive results go down.

 

The entry fee is 95 usd/ month (including 8 simultaneous games, 16 lectures and up to 11 reviews)

 

All groups have own prize fund, made from entry fees:

A group: 1-place: 200$, 2-place: 100$, 3-place: 50$

B, C, D, E groups: 1-place: 100$, 2-place: 50$

 

Places are decided by the highest winning percentage. To win the prize you have to play

at least 10 games (from 44 possible games) per month with at least 5 different opponents

 

Teachers can take cash prizes too, so they are also interested in winning their games in simultaneous. Teachers are not allowed to take prizes, if they play less than 60% of all games. Also teachers have big bonuses, if they play 80, 90 and 100% of all games - you can be sure, that each teacher will try to play as many games as possible (to get these bonuses)

 

Time control:

30 min + 30 sec byoyomi- 5 times for insei vs insei games

30 min + 60 sec byoyomi -5 times for for simultaneous

 

At the end of the each year the student, who showed best results (who won A-league most times) will get a 1000$ grant, which can be used for private lessons, offline study trips to Korea, Japan or China, Go books or Go equipment. Teachers are not allowed to get this grant.

 

 25% of your games will be reviewed offline by Alexander Dinerchtein. More games you play – more reviews you get! You will get these reviews once a week by e-mail.

 

**********************************************

We plan to start the league from Jan, 1 – 2010


4 professional players (Chun Pongjho 8p, An Younggil 8p, Lee Hajin 3p and Cho Mikyung 1p) joined the project as lectors. They will review your games online in audio format. We will have 16 lectures in total every month. Alexander Dinerchtein, 3p will give some lectures too, including 4 lectures in Russian


Last week-end of the month is for Blitz games.
If you was very busy during the month, you can play lot of blitz games at the end and get your reviews.
Main time control for last Saturday and Sunday of every month is 3 times shorter than usual:
10 min, 30 sec byoyomi - 5 times for insei vs insei games
10 min, 60 sec byoyomi - 5 times for simultaneous


 For registration please e-mail us (backpast@gmail.com) these details:

1.Name

2.KGS ID

3.Country

4.Rank (you must be 10-kyu or stronger!)

5.Goal in Go

6.Preferred method of payment (Paypal, Moneybookers,Webmoney, WesternUnion etc)


 

 December 12: We already accepted 50 players. We don't plan to add more groups, so others will be in the waiting line.

Our waiting line is unusual.  If you pay early, but there are no empty places available, you are allowed to observe all audio lectures free of charge till you join us in February or March, when we get vacant places.

If we decide to stop the project, you will get 100% money back.

So, still accepting new members!


December 29:
If you have an account on DGS and prefer slow games,
you can get your teaching games here, instead of KGS. You can play all 8 games (or just few)
with both teachers at the same time for an extra fee $2 per game.
Time control must be set as 30 days absolute (no byoyomi, with clocks
running on week-ends).
It means about 3-4 moves per game every day.
Such games will be count as standard simultaneous games on KGS and
must be played on the standard handicap for your division.
On DGS you can also meet the members of your group - we accept
the results of such games. As you may know we also accept offline games -
you can play even in the local club (if you live in the same city)
- but please write and upload the SGF of your game (at least 100 moves)

December 31:
Everything is ready. Our website: http://insei-league.com/

 



Comments:

Batavia
2k 2009-11-18 03:11
I really dislike the idea where teachers can take the cash prizes too. if i pay for teaching games i don't mind winning every now and then if i have mastered a certain tactic. if the teacher gets payed extra he can just start messing around to improve his winning and that's not always helpful.
Danigabi
6d ( AR ) 2009-11-18 01:11
Imperator, i can assure you something. He can cut down the league price in half, an the same ammount of people would be interested.

Its just how this really works. Its not a guess, or a conjecture, i run a go school on the internet and i see this happen.

Those who really want to improve and are of moderately high level (5d plus) would easily spend 95 dollars a month in lesson. Its at most 4 hours of lessons by a regular pro player.

Someone that buys 2 go books a year, doesnt take lessons, wouldnt never be interested in going to asia to study, will never get into a payed league even if it cost 15 dollars a month.

Also a league like this is very time demanding: players that could think "this is nice ill try it out" will drop out by the second month because they simply will not play all the games. Price is irrelevant, because such players would simply not profit from the league.

I repeat, this is an intensive training for people who are deeply motivated to pursue a high goal in go and are willing to pay the cost for it.
Imperator
2009-11-18 02:11
Danigabi:

Of course prize is a matter. What a silly thing to say. I know a lot of people who burn for the game of Go but simply cannot afford this. Quite a lot of students.

The concern is if there are 40 people who are willing to pay 95$/month to improve like this.

If you where just asking who wanted. You would see a lot more people. Of course prize is relevant.

You also have to understand, not everybody might see the value in this.

This is not comparable to going to Korea to play in a league. Then you have dedicated your time to play in the league. Here we are talking about people who have lives to be a part of in addition to Go.

There are probably a lot of people here who have 95$ to spend a month on Go as well, but would choose to use it on something that seems "safer", like lectures or reviews of chosen games, where they know very definitely what value they get for their money.

Cut down the amount of reviews and the price money and cut down the price of joining, and I believe this would be much more realistic.

Or, you could have more then one league running. One for the more serious players who have that kind of cash to spend, and one "lite" league, that is cheaper and offer some of the same services, but to a lesser extent.

I would like see this project happen. But it does not help to justify the price if there simply are not 40 people interested. Then one should "adjust the product to conform to marked demands" if one is to put it that way.

If we have a choice of a lesser and cheaper version of this league, but with the basic format of 4 groups with 10 players. Or no league at all. Which one do you chose?

And yes, simply lowering the number might seem like a solution, but then I feel KGS is missing out on something it needs. And Go in general needs more things like this happening, especially here in Europe. But it needs to stay realistic.

First seed, then plow...
Danigabi
6d ( AR ) 2009-11-18 01:11
I think this would be a great thing. Price is not much of a matter here: players that want to play a league like this are willing to pay it. Those who want it cheaper just dont want it.
This is an intensive study option and for those that care deeply about the game. If you are not willing or dont desire to study go in Asia, you probably wont see the point here.

The concern here is not the price, but if there are 40 players who intensively want to improve their game.

As i wrote in a personal email to breakfast, i would consider trying to make a smaller league. 15 devote people are way more likely to appear than 40.
Random
2k kgs ( RU ) 2009-11-18 01:11
The price would be fair if ppl actually played these 44 games. However, considering that I at max can play a little less than that and this will force me to drop some other activities, and considering that other ppl will be in a same situation(most likely) I expect 1/4-1/2 of game to actually happen, maybe even less considering time settings. This makes it 2-5 reviews a month (5 being the optimistic number) and I really do not know if I want to force myself into constant playing for 3-4 reviews for 95$ ...
DanielTom
3d KGS ( PT ) 2009-11-18 12:11
I don't know if the project is going to work, but if it does it will be very refreshing to the European Go... Best of luck to the organizers!
Imperator
2009-11-18 12:11
This is the main problem with this. Is there 40 people who are likely to be willing to pay 95$/month for an extended period?

No. So to make this happen, the price needs to be right. If what Breakfast and roln are offering should be priced this way, maybe the offering should be lowered according to a much more realistisc goal in terms of what people are willing to pay.

One should also consider to have different payments for different groups?

But Dinnerschtein says it himself:

"You can register right now, but please don’t pay us till we ask you to pay. Probably we cannot find enough members to start the project."

Why start a project that is doomed to fail? Why not adjust to what the marked is demanding?

Ask what people are willing to pay for something like this, and then adjust the offering.
nef
7k ( RU ) 2009-11-17 09:11
omg even lectures included. i would listen some lectures by Catalin for example it would be very nice )) and i think its a best offer for european go community. and i will participate for sure when my salary increased a little.
tiny81
5k 2009-11-17 06:11

@blaat: well, this is a point your making! Because even if you had the time to play everyday one or two game a day, you would probably have a hard time to play 4 game with all of your class mates, since they most likely will not share all the same time space, then you.
blaat
2D 2009-11-17 06:11
I really like this idea. I would be tempted if the price was a little bit lower.

I can imagine it would be a fair price if you actually played all your 44 games and got like 11 reviews. But I don't have the time to play 44 games.
I understand that their need to be prices but imho these a bit too high.

Kind Regards
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