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Servers | KGS | KGS Insei League Pros and Cons

2010-02-11 Expert: Maroncsan Rate: (5)  4 ratings

KGS Insei League Pros and Cons

 There are all kind of misteries and misunderstandings around KGS Insei League, so - even though it might not be a big sensation - I asked around a few players from the league about their opinions on the system and lectures etc. and will share it with you below. Hope it will be of any help if you are hesitating of joining the league. 

The lecture archives: I was very surprised to see that all (or at least a lot of) the archive lectures are available to download for students of the league. So when I have just half an hour I usually watch one of the audio lectures by Lee Ha-jin, or Cho Migyeong professionals. I know Ha-jin from before, so I know her English is very good even compared to a westerner, but Migyeong' s English is also very nice, and she explains things very well. As far as I have seen - I only watched the first lectures - she is not very familiar with KGS interface yet, but that should be solved by time. The lectures are around 25-30 minutes per game review (usually 2-3 reviews), mostly pointing out the biggest mistakes in fuseki. Unfortunately the lectures of the Korean professionals are at a quite impossible time for European players: the last one by Lee Ha-jin started around 1AM GMT.

The most recent news about the games archive is that it will be moved to KGS+ which even though means much better quality you will also have to pay the additional KGS+ fee to be able to watch a lecture if you missed it. I've heard many players from the league are quite disappointed about this, probably not because of the small attached fee, but the fact that they already paid quite a lot for getting into the league.

The number of the players: in each league the players' number grew to 12, which is very good as there will be more games to play and more reviews hopefully. Recently it was also published that the player who wins March KGS+ tournament will get his place in the Insei League free of charge.

I must say however, there are several problems with the current league system. We are almost half-way into February league, and many people from each group haven't played a single game yet. Apart from them wasting their money, this is also a problem for the active players as the less games they are able to play, the less reviews they get. Counting the results only from the winning percentage is also a bit problematic. As the minimum of the games to be played is 12 (which is only around 25% of all games!), if somebody has a satisfying percentage after these games he won't be encouraged to play anymore.

I think it's a good idea to let teachers be involved in the competition for winning the money prices, however even though 60% of the games they have to play for this sounds like a lot, if every player would try to play as many games as possible I'm not sure this would be a satisfying percentage. Anyway, this also just goes back to my opinion that the percentage system in itself is not very good.

The simultaneous is very active however, when I'm online I almost always see a challenge out by Alex or Ilya. I think it's a very good idea that these games don't count in the league, as we are playing with quite reduced handicap - except League A - this way the students might be more willing to play. I have to mention Ilya's awesome record here though .. so far in League B-E he has a 100% winning percentage (141-0 and counting). There is even a reward on his head now, the one who can first beat him from these Groups, gets a go4go subscription and subscription.

The moral of the league is very good too, I met with several goplayers I knew from Korea here. Everybody is friendly, though I believe the social cohesion could be even better if weaker players could get their games reviewed by stronger - of course only if the stronger player has time - and maybe with some study-group, such as life&death solving. I'm not saying that the stronger players are not willing to review the games (I've seen especially danigabi review a lot) rather that the weaker players don't seem to ask.. I mean as 25% gets reviewed by the teachers (which is in fact a pretty fair number) there might still be lost games remaining unreviewed.

I would be glad if you could let me know anything else you are interested in, or just share your opinion.


2010-02-12 01:02
I think the merge with kgs plus is good.. have to find a solution for the fee.

The fact that you are sponsoring the tournament and providing them with many lectures should give you some bargaining power to not pay the full fee.

I agree about the winning %: igs online tournaments uses a formula of mixing win % and number of wins, which i think is what this league needs.

Someone with 20 victories and 2 losses maybe should beat someone with 12 victories and no losses.

Teacher prizes: originally i said i had no problem with it, but i dont think its working out very well, specially considering that from B to E the handicap is reduced.
Teachers, if prized, should be as likely to win as any other member. Illya is proof that noone else can be in 1st place from B and down.
2010-02-12 12:02
That idea sounds very good to me. So how t find more league players?
2010-02-11 11:02
I think, that if I am able to find 60 members again in March and April, I can pay KGS+ fees from our budget, without asking students to pay extra $5.
$300 per month is not a very big problem.
The most important thing is that more KGS players will know about our League - it will be easier to find new League members. Maybe we can have more groups in future, not just 5, but 10 as they have in Korean Baduk Association
1k ( PL ) 2010-02-11 10:02
I'm not sure about the KGS+ idea. Personally I would rather prefer to have access to lectures without subscribing to KGS+.

Could there be an option of recording lectures in 2 different manners? This way the Insei-league students would have a choice - pay extra for the quality, or go for the value. That might be a solution
2. kyu IGS ( HR ) 2010-02-11 08:02
I think Breakfast is right. You pay a bit more money, but I think it is worth because of the sound quality. You could try getting KGS+ in entery fee, so you get KGS+ and Insei League for 95 dollars, or simplay increase the Insei LEague enterance to 100 dollars for league and KGS+. Anyway, I think you get a lot out of 95 dollars anyway so you shouldnt be crying about a little higher cost... That with EGD would be great if that would happen. I made a suggestion about taking some online tournaments in account for the EGD, but was rejected. I will try to mail Aldo about that maybe...
2010-02-11 08:02
i think the main-problem is that we have to pay the kgs+ fee to view the lessons then. В sharing the lectures i do not mind but extra costs except the 95$ fee is a bit tough.
2010-02-11 08:02
I posted one of Lee Hajin's lectures on GoDiscussions and some members said that sound quality is too low. We cannot make it higher by using additional programs. The best way is to record lectures directly by KGS, like in KGS+.
But if lot of our members don't like the idea of cooperation with KGS+, we can always go back to our old system
2010-02-11 08:02
KGS+ members can watch our lectures too (from archive, after 2 weeks). Is that bad for us? We don't have any secrets. The main thing is that we review your own games! Not just random pro games as in KGS+
2010-02-11 08:02
We can also mentioned that all Rus vs Rus games are rated games now - it's the first online tournament in history accepted in official rating system. I am trying to make the same with EGF rating - but it's harder.

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