(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[3600]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
PW[PeteLiu,jackjin]PB[Benhu,LeeWang]WR[2p]BR[3p]DT[2009-03-21]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Repacse [?\]: yes
PeteLiu [2p\]: Hi^^
jackjin [2p\]: hi
Benhu [3p\]: hi
]RE[B+Resign]
;B[qd]BL[3581.651]C[LeeWang [1p\]: hi
telchar [1d\]: hmmm je vais démagnétiser mon écran, pas sur que l'ordi puisse supporter tant de superpuissance
Repacse [?\]: may the best team win :-)
ruufi: pro rengo hmm*
stopblitz [6d\]: omg this is going to be a long boring game P
ruufi: is there an offical pro rengo tournament btw?
]
;W[dp]WL[3555.547]C[huggy [3k\]: yes stopblitz
stopblitz [6d\]: no
]
;B[dc]BL[3567.699]C[adir11 [3d?\]: hi all
JeffChang [9d\]: hi all ^^
fire1 [2k\]: wow
arbi [10k\]: in this game team mates can spoke to each other on their moves?
fire1 [2k\]: 4 pro:D
Elementary [-\]: hi
Warfreak2 [4d\]: will jeff be kibbitzing?
meuns [2k\]: hi jeff
telchar [1d\]: hey jeff
Uberdude [2d\]: I was goign to get out of bed, but now this game....
fire1 [2k\]: hi jeff
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
Ashe [2k\]: "get out"?
JeffChang [9d\]: In this year, we will invite some Top pro players to be our special coaches, Luo xihe 9d pro, (Samsung Cup world champion 2006), Chen yaoye (youngest 9d pro in the world), Fang tianfeng (8d pro, National champion ) and Yu ping (6d pro, Chinese national computer Go champion).  And some other Top pro players also on discussion. Welcome to join us !
JeffChang [9d\]: I'll comment the game at the same time : )
Warfreak2 [4d\]: :-D
Ashe [2k\]: !
ConanHoye [?\]: these games are the BEST way to start a saturday morning!  thanks Jeff!
fire1 [2k\]: wow can you:D
ruufi: o maybe you clone it jeff?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: i was on the trip last year, maybe i can help answer some questions too
stopblitz [6d\]: btw jef 
]
;W[qp]WL[3483.835]C[ruufi: o you have to advertise i see^
Askas [10k\]: its saturday midnight :(
meuns [2k\]: small chinese for b ?
svgo [3k\]: Jeff, does this mean you've asked them to come, or that they agreed to come?
Ashe [2k\]: saturday afternoon
stopblitz [6d\]: after the trip finish do you going to stay in china or right over it finish go back to eurpe?
Repacse [?\]: great, the famous komokuhoshikomokuhoshiopening
Zharf [-\]: erm
Sandmann [-\]: repacse its komokuhoshikomokukomoku
elahrairah [2k\]: I want C12 !
Zharf [-\]: yeah
ruufi: my girlfriend would leave me if id says thoses words @ Repacse
Repacse [?\]: just shows how weak I am , sorry
JeffChang [9d\]: hehe surely they agreed to come : )
hikaru361 [14k\]: are they aloud to suggest moves for eachother?
adir11 [3d?\]: c6
svgo [3k\]: :)
zakheus91 [6k\]: yea ^^
Realm [3d\]: no
Realm [3d\]: not allowed
shizen [-\]: it would kind of defeat the purpose :)
]
;B[cn]BL[3443.596]C[Sandmann [-\]: maybe they are sitting in the same internet cafe and discussing the moves
adir11 [3d?\]: yay
ruufi: its like in chess: first move e2-e4 and then 10 minutes break
Repacse [?\]: lucky there is a time limit, otherwise I wouldn`t get any sleep
ruufi: i dont get it^
Warfreak2 [4d\]: well i was going to record some guitar
Warfreak2 [4d\]: but now i have rengo to watch :-D
bisons [13k\]: or teamspeak or skype ^^
Tamsin [1k\]: perhaps consultation go could be interesting...provided you could confer privately so that the opposing team couldn`t hear
Warfreak2 [4d\]: we played some consultation go in china last year and year before, students vs a teacher
meuns [2k\]: ?
meuns [2k\]: result ?
vroom [12k\]: where is the fun in rengo when you talk with your partner
Warfreak2 [4d\]: though it didn't matter if the teacher heard our plans
stopblitz [6d\]: i want tartaric to win
nidza92 [-\]: fun is in winning
Warfreak2 [4d\]: because our plans are all stupid anyway :-D
meuns [2k\]: lol
]
;W[fq]WL[3369.403]C[ruufi: gi is always fun (since you have the money to pay your flatrate)
Jep [16k\]: The game is not that complicated yet... Why they use so much time? 
meuns [2k\]: funny warfreak, who was your teacher ?
Elementary [-\]: c11 
NateC [1d\]: Why, nidza?
WVoron [4d\]: jeff you are only 5-6 dan amatour....how you can teach????
arbi [10k\]: if no teammete discussion allowed then 1v1 matches would be much better this is just interesting ithink
vroom [12k\]: lol jep
Warfreak2 [4d\]: last year, peter liu, jeffchang and tom lee (wadmn on kgs) were the main teachers
hyuend [8k\]: wow 4p vs 4p
vroom [12k\]: there are torunamets where they play 2 days for 1 game
Jep [16k\]: :-)
nidza92 [-\]: because winning is fun..
Warfreak2 [4d\]: this year, even more pros are teaching, i think
stopblitz [6d\]: WVoron and you only about 1 dan so he can teach you alot dont you think ?
Jep [16k\]: Im 16k and I would also place F3, but fast :-)
iPwnNoobs [3k\]: pros always use a lot of time in the opening. you could even say opening is most complicated becaues there are so many choices that influence everything else in subtle ways
meuns [2k\]: winning is nothing, learning is everyhing
Warfreak2 [4d\]: jack jin was a teacher last year for a couple of weeks
JeffChang [9d\]: yeah, Peter, Jack and Ben they are all our teahcers
Repacse [?\]: eh, does this mean LeeWang is the weakest link in this game ?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: we also met leewang
JeffChang [9d\]: and LeeWang will probably join us, too ^^
]
;B[ci]BL[3367.533]C[nidza92 [-\]: winning is everything ofc
NateC [1d\]: I agree with meuns. What is there to be gained in a win by time via lag?
WVoron [4d\]: im 5 dan Rueeia
Warfreak2 [4d\]: lee wang is also clsnow99 on kgs
meuns [2k\]: ok ok
vroom [12k\]: is this some kind of chinese opening?
meuns [2k\]: are you 5d egf ?
WVoron [4d\]: Russia
Warfreak2 [4d\]: this is mini chinese
WVoron [4d\]: 4
stopblitz [6d\]: you 5 dan egf ?
Uberdude [2d\]: WVoron. you are 4d on kgs
Uberdude [2d\]: that's pretty crap for a 5d egf
meuns [2k\]: egf and kgs are similar
stopblitz [6d\]: i dont think so soory
]
;W[od]WL[3305.009]C[WVoron [4d\]: that  not say nithing
Sakae [-\]: Uberdude
Warfreak2 [4d\]: jeff is 5d in china, that's a little better than 5d in europe ;-)
MafiaGo [3d\]: wow pros rengo
Warfreak2 [4d\]: and he's a great teacher
Sakae [-\]: KGS rankings isn't something absolut
vroom [12k\]: will there be a review after this game?
WVoron [4d\]: i think not
meuns [2k\]: don't blame jeff !
maszrum [-\]: wow, 4d trolling
maszrum [-\]: nice
Sakae [-\]: there's such a wide range between strength here
JeffChang [9d\]: We'll have a review, sure : )
Sandmann [-\]: jeff could also gain a better rank but i think he would need to pay
vroom [12k\]: awesome :)
Sakae [-\]: some 2ks are like 2ds, some 2ds are like 2ks
Sakae [-\]: 1 stone here or there makes no diffrence
Cookiex [1k?\]: i beg to differ
stopblitz [6d\]: when i was in korea 5 dan form china playd with me and i can tell you chinise 5 dans are much stronger the most of the europans players
Jep [16k\]: Can anyone say somthing genius about the opening so far???
]
;B[ld]BL[3294.607]C[Uberdude [2d\]: yesm and wworon a 5d in russian and 4d in kgs is surely weaker than jeffchang,  a 5d in china and 9d on kgs
qwazidan [4k\]: seen before
ssuceuse: it's a comon opening
WVoron [4d\]: JeffChang nwon my  good frieтв Timyr ankin by 2 point wjth big probl
meuns [2k\]: very bookish
Jep [16k\]: Thx :-)
yoonaX [3k\]: w q13
maher139 [23k\]: lol so many people
Cookiex [1k?\]: i find pro rengo interesting because the mistakes are minimal.... they think alike and play alike
WVoron [4d\]: ))
elahrairah [2k\]: It's heading towards a fighting game, though
Warfreak2 [4d\]: with so many even stronger teachers, though, i think jeff will be resigned again to teaching the lower group :-p
Sakae [-\]: Cookiex
Sakae [-\]: you have no idea what you talk about
Warfreak2 [4d\]: but jeff can still destroy me for sure.
vroom [12k\]: poor jeff :)
NateC [1d\]: There are mistakes, we just can't see them
maher139 [23k\]: i cant understand these games :P pro games are too advanced for me so ill leave
JeffChang [9d\]: :D
meuns [2k\]: hehe
Cookiex [1k?\]: ok sakae, ignorance is bliss
Elementary [-\]: q13 ~~~~
elahrairah [2k\]: It's good for beginners as well, you know :) You learn about shape !
Jep [16k\]: P16 getting weak? Needs to run...
meuns [2k\]: jeff is really gentle to ignore you guys...
Uberdude [2d\]: q13 i guess
Uberdude [2d\]: everyone loves that joseki
Uberdude [2d\]: 1
telchar [1d\]: i vote q13
stopblitz [6d\]: jef can i talk with in privete giv me some more info about this trip 
vroom [12k\]: I don't even know it
JeffChang [9d\]: w is hesitating on the joseki choice now :P
Sakae [-\]: Cookiex, if 2 20ks wathced a 5k game, they would think the mistakes is minimal
iTa [-\]: why b C11 and not D11 ?
JeffChang [9d\]: stopblitz, please ^^
stopblitz [6d\]: i am not sure yes to which school i will go in china maybe you can help me abit
meuns [2k\]: hehe
yoonaX [3k\]: q13 p15 o15 p14 q16 r14 r17 
]
;W[jc]WL[3122.726]C[icebucket [-\]: <.<
Elementary [-\]: ! k17
Cetoo [3k\]: 1 hour time for pros, that must be a blitz!
Calis [2k\]: hum interesting
Uberdude [2d\]: oh was that pete or jeck just play as w?
WapiFlapi [-\]: who said q13 ?
yoonaX [3k\]: h17
SKGaming [-\]: มันคิดกันนิ
SKGaming [-\]: ไม่เหมือนเราหรอก
Batavia [4k\]: the pincher pincher is something i havn't seen often
nidza92 [-\]: w should take a look at ishidas dictionary of joseki
SKGaming [-\]: oops sorry
elahrairah [2k\]: N1è or M8 look thematic?
elahrairah [2k\]: *n17
SKGaming [-\]: wrong windows
minimelcer [2d\]: gg
Sandmann [-\]: nizda what is there to see?
ruufi: nizda lol i just do it
Warfreak2 [4d\]: i think if a pro looks at ishida's joseki dictionary, today, he will laugh
Uberdude [2d\]: w will g17 nextt and aim for a close game
Repacse [?\]: is this still common play ?
ruufi: ishida dosnt write about k17 ^
Sandmann [-\]: :))
Jormaz: H17
WVoron [4d\]: stopblitz a gam?
Uberdude [2d\]: nidza92, do you know what ishida said when he visited europe?
nidza92 [-\]: josekis
loookj [2k\]: Is THIS game played on kgs ? or there is VIDEO live?
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
nidza92 [-\]: no
Tamsin [1k\]: breakfast learned a lot from Ishida`s dictionary - he told me so himself
JeffChang [9d\]:  This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
Warfreak2 [4d\]: "why are all these kyu players playing joseki from the 70s?"
yoonaX [3k\]: h17 or n17
JeffChang [9d\]: In this year, we will invite some Top pro players to be our special coaches, Luo xihe 9d pro, (Samsung Cup world champion 2006), Chen yaoye (youngest 9d pro in the world), Fang tianfeng (8d pro, National champion ) and Yu ping (6d pro, Chinese national computer Go champion).  And some other Top pro players also on discussion. Welcome to join us !
Uberdude [2d\]: "why are all these amateurs playing such old joseki?"
]
;B[pf]BL[3172.646]C[womack [1k\]: lol
nidza92 [-\]: i was just joking...i know that book is old
JeffChang [9d\]: "Once you read well, you create joseki", ^^
meuns [2k\]: ^^
Warfreak2 [4d\]: i am probably able to correct a few of the joseki in ishida, though i've never read it
Uberdude [2d\]: "because your book is so good sensei"
womack [1k\]: A 9d level remark
iTa [-\]: b F16
stopblitz [6d\]: WVoron in our last game you askt for undo when you did a misteke and i givd you and lost so first larn to be polite then ask me for a game 
lepinskie [?\]: wow, Chen Yaoye!
meuns [2k\]: indeed
ruufi: but ishida is still a huge help to ggrip the basics and the tesujis which areinvoolved in tesuji
seppy [7k\]: i dont understand k17
adem [1d\]: kabul günleri mi bunların ki böyle bir şeyyapıyorlar
ruufi: joseki*
yoonaX [3k\]: warfreak how can you do that
Tamsin [1k\]: but until you can read very very well, it`s very useful to know the joseki
yoonaX [3k\]: even pros couldnt correct it for some time
JeffChang [9d\]: Please contact me on private messages if you're interested to join our program , thanks ; )
NateC [1d\]: stopblitz, that sounds fair to me. Will you only give an undo when you know you will win?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: yes, but today pros can correct it, eg peter liu, who has taught me :-)
meuns [2k\]: warfreak isn't the best...
Emerald [-\]: is Q14 the weird move?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: jeff also showed me some corrections to older joseki
Emerald [-\]: or the 'old' move?
Airi [2d\]: pro rengo :>
elahrairah [2k\]: Q14 makes it hard for w to make a choice
stopblitz [6d\]: if i fell good at this momant yes 
ruufi: o he is better than ishida since he was famouse in the 70th
Repacse [?\]: black plays agressive
stopblitz [6d\]: but i guess i not doing this offen 
yoonaX [3k\]: so you just correct them because somebody already showed you ^^
]
;W[qc]WL[2977.543]C[Toph [3k?\]: for now, it's an area game, no fight yet
Warfreak2 [4d\]: yeah, yoona, the point is not only are some of them wrong, but i even know why some of them are wrong :-p
Toph [3k?\]: ah, white want fight
Emerald [-\]: white want settle.
ruufi: this is like: if you know how to capture a stone and a ko works you are a good go player since you cann all read for yourself
RunningFox [2d\]: c next move
]
;B[rc]BL[3143.09]C[WapiFlapi [-\]: You know, maybe once, people will corect today's josekis
Sandmann [-\]: r17 and k17 are clearly played by two different persons:)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: for sure
Uberdude [2d\]: sure, go is an evolving subject
Vade [3k\]: one day I might learn a joseki
ruufi: is there a better book than ishida btw?
WapiFlapi [-\]: =D
Tamsin [1k\]: rengo often feels like 2 games on one board
Emerald [-\]: good point sandman
Airi [2d\]: i know 3 josekis
Warfreak2 [4d\]: if you really want up-to-date joseki, ruufi, use a game database which you keep up to date
Warfreak2 [4d\]: eg GoGoD
Warfreak2 [4d\]: and a pattern-searching program like kombilo
ruufi: thx , but i prefer books
nidza92 [-\]: joseki doesnt matter , only fighting
Warfreak2 [4d\]: otherwise best to learn from a teacher
Freeplayer: what's the order?
ruufi: do you understand? i love books in general
Tamsin [1k\]: which three? they must be tremendous to get you to 2d Airi
tchan001 [7k\]: GoGoD is only updated quarterly
Sandmann [-\]: i have two volumes of joseki bibles by nihon kiin from 1987...kind of expired
stopblitz [6d\]: i wonder if shusaku will come back to life and larn new josekis can someone bet hin ?
PeteLiu [2p\]: I don't know Jack's intention...
limestruck [2k\]: would be cool if you could see the boards in each players mind .. too see how different they look, and then adapt
]
;W[of]WL[2888.063]C[ruufi: thx sandman!
Sandmann [-\]: haha pete
Emerald [-\]: avalanche and 2 other variations of it.
nidza92 [-\]: josekin isnt important*
stopblitz [6d\]: him *
Emerald [-\]: total of 3
Airi [2d\]: lol
elahrairah [2k\]: Hehe, Pete is lost? :)
Vade [3k\]: avalanche is too silly for me
Toph [3k?\]: mmh, i was thinking about P14 to be better than Q17...
meuns [2k\]: P13
JeffChang [9d\]: Peter lost Jack's logic :D
Emerald [-\]: well. avalanche will get you to 2d
WapiFlapi [-\]: stopblitz : stop reading mangas
PeteLiu [2p\]: To be Lost
Jormaz: P13, S16
JeffChang [9d\]: well I didn't get it either to be honest
telchar [1d\]: c'est quoi ces gens qui parlent pendant les rengos?!? Autant se dire les coups tant qu'à faire!
ruufi: jeff pls: jack played k17 or?
Sandmann [-\]: maybe jack wanted to connect  under by m18?
Emerald [-\]: p13 is not safe.
Firzen [2d\]: let's hope we won't get banned again ^^
seppy [7k\]: mmm missclick?
JeffChang [9d\]: from Peter's words, I guess Jack played R17
stopblitz [6d\]: WapiFlapi mangas?
ruufi: i see thx
Uberdude [2d\]: q14 at n17 more normal?
Sandmann [-\]: hehe yes jeff
JeffChang [9d\]: ^^
Airi [2d\]: you can see who's turn it is
JeffChang [9d\]: I can only guess :D
Toph [3k?\]: en tout cas telchar, moi je ne parle d'un coup qu'après qu'il ait été joué ^^
stopblitz [6d\]: what mangas?
]
;B[pg]BL[3019.429]C[yoonaX [3k\]: b better now?
WapiFlapi [-\]: i was speaking about sai coming back to life .. its juste like in Hikaru No Go, i dont know the english title
Emerald [-\]: w better
Jackal [4k?\]: En tout cas c'est difficile de voir tous ces termes japonais maltraités par des "s" au pluriel.
jackjin [2p\]: hehe
ruufi: Hikaru No go made mayn tournaments in europe look like a freakshow :)
JeffChang [9d\]: well hard to say
ruufi: sorry but true
telchar [1d\]: des mangatachi, peut être
Elementary [-\]: jack laugh o.O
JeffChang [9d\]: depends on what w plan is next
TheMeister [10k\]: sai = shusaku (for those who are still confused)
elahrairah [2k\]: I like black here, w is not so thick, and black extending at H17 will look good
Sandmann [-\]: w has two different plans
ruufi: this ugly blowers^
Tamsin [1k\]: chigaimasu...the plural is just manga
Uberdude [2d\]: push on 4th line =(
nidza92 [-\]: q17 than m17?
JeffChang [9d\]: hehe yeah seems painful
JeffChang [9d\]: but if w can get connection on the top I guess it's fine
ruufi: imagine franz joseph dickhut with a blower in his hand  lol^
Irrdan [5d\]: if m17 then what is q14 good for?
MafiaGo [3d\]: not q16?
nidza92 [-\]: i dont undersatnd ur question
Irrdan [5d\]: p14 typo
nidza92 [-\]: it stops b from cutting
MafiaGo [3d\]: i think i would q16, 
]
;W[gc]WL[2694.771]C[MafiaGo [3d\]: oh
Sandmann [-\]: xD
nidza92 [-\]: he must have heard me
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
JeffChang [9d\]: If you're interested, please check out our website, or contact Jeff or Peter directly, thanks!
Uberdude [2d\]: i tihnk when pete played k17 after b q14 he expected white to g17 straight away and treat p16 lightly ?
ruufi: i think so tooo uberdude
seppy [7k\]: q17?
JeffChang [9d\]: well they their logics are contradicted
ruufi: what jeff thinks about? :D
JeffChang [9d\]: then*
JeffChang [9d\]: I feel like they are thinking about different things
ruufi: rengo is fun^
HoangVu [-\]: they need to decide on one thing to do :p
A295: dont they always?
TheMeister [10k\]: I think somebody should go in the center. It'll mix things up =)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: indeed, rengo is fun
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: so there are 2 trips, one in shanghai and one in beijing ?
Toph [3k?\]: area game, yep. with G17, M16 begins to feel bad
MafiaGo [3d\]: wonder if b would play area at f16 or l15
JeffChang [9d\]: waterandgo, yes
]
;B[mc]BL[2882.467]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: rengo is best if you have a partner who plays the same way you do (pointing at you, firzen)
Sandmann [-\]: the same way huh:P
HoangVu [-\]: And close strength
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: ok
Jackal [4k?\]: I like n17 :)
ruufi: b seems better imo
Warfreak2 [4d\]: overplay is a style.
iPwnNoobs [3k\]: my style is easy. attack
nidza92 [-\]: i dontllike w position now..
RunningFox [2d\]: n17?
Uberdude [2d\]: p14 seems aji keshi
yoonaX [3k\]: overplay against pros doesnt work
Cetoo [3k\]: yah warfreak, but it's more fun when both have different strategies ;-)
JeffChang [9d\]: similar logic and ideology is more important in rengo : )  I belive
Emerald [-\]: white is pretty safe
adir11 [3d?\]: q17?
Emerald [-\]: black is in trouble
JeffChang [9d\]: believe*
HoangVu [-\]: well, if you tell an overplay artist to stop overplaying they just become overly defensive
HoangVu [-\]: doesn't work :p
Warfreak2 [4d\]: well no
Uberdude [2d\]: or at least be flexible to follow your oppoent style
Warfreak2 [4d\]: i can play sensibly if i want to
Uberdude [2d\]: raather than fighting it
Warfreak2 [4d\]: eg in a tournament
ruufi: ideology= ?? like mao or whatever? huh?
JeffChang [9d\]: hehe nope
nidza92 [-\]: takemiya nad cho chikun are close in strenght..but wouldnt do so well aginst other top pros i think
Warfreak2 [4d\]: but killing is more fun
JeffChang [9d\]: well let's say, value judgement
Emerald [-\]: it'd be funny if takemiya and cho chikun were on the same team of rengo.
Sandmann [-\]: its spoiling the opponents` fun:P
stupidzym [1k?\]: 1 vs 3
Warfreak2 [4d\]: i think lee changho and lee sedol as a rengo team would be funny
]
;W[ce]WL[2552.414]C[HoangVu [-\]: warfreak and lee chang ho
Tamsin [1k\]: it`d be funnier still if Kobayashi Koichi and Takemiya partnered each other
HoangVu [-\]: funny
Emerald [-\]: lee changho changed his style though.
nidza92 [-\]: i think they would be unbeatble:)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: why are you fighting, sedol, we can start the endgame now and win by half a point!
ruufi: w loves weak groups
HoangVu [-\]: xD
RunningFox [2d\]: geez, these guys are messing up everthing! :)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: why aren't you fighting, changho, when we can kill this group!
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: rengo is not adding 2 people's strengths huh
HoangVu [-\]: lee changho and takemiya?
JeffChang [9d\]: well b mini Chinese on the left became weak, too
jeffywhite [2k\]: wow
Emerald [-\]: sakata eio and lee changho
Emerald [-\]: or even better. kato masao
Tamsin [1k\]: jokes apart, what woulld be your `dream ticket`?
Sandmann [-\]: all three together
RunningFox [2d\]: w is pretty greedy
arindam [6k\]: best would have been seigen and minoru
MafiaGo [3d\]: n14 exchange?
Airi [2d\]: shushaku and sai best team
tromp [-\]: dosaku and shusai
ruufi: what choises have black against this doubleapproch?
Emerald [-\]: how about seigen and lee changho. i bet lee changho will annoy the heck out of seigen
jeffywhite [2k\]: we will find out
]
;B[ed]BL[2767.874]C[Tamsin [1k\]: Takemiya and O Meien for me
Uberdude [2d\]: split
jeffywhite [2k\]: go seigen is my favorite
Uberdude [2d\]: b can atac ktop later
ruufi: b e15 would have been bad , right?
jeffywhite [2k\]: my style is most like his
telchar [1d\]: en plus il s'appelle go, c'est dire
HoangVu [-\]: O rissei and cho hunhyun
Jackal [4k?\]: Heureusement, ce n'était pas son vrai nom.
Uberdude [2d\]: b17 ?
ruufi: w 3 weak groups oO
HoangVu [-\]: I think pete and jack is fun
ruufi: ok 2 and a half
HoangVu [-\]: opposite styles fun
RunningFox [2d\]: isn't w a bit too aggressive?
telchar [1d\]: en vrai c'est échecs seigen
Emerald [-\]: how is B17 a valid move./......
JeffChang [9d\]: yeah opposite styles : )
MatchFree [-\]: i think playing rengo with myself would lead 2 disaster :P
Airi [2d\]: lol
Uberdude [2d\]: b17 makes base
Lionking [2d\]: c15 feels a bit overplay
Uberdude [2d\]: and takes b's base
Jackal [4k?\]: Héhé telchar
ruufi: b17 d14
t0Strong4u [-\]: this doesn't look good for white
t0Strong4u [-\]: three weak groups?
baran [5k\]: now d13?
compendium [-\]: peteliu = poppy
nidza92 [-\]: i wouldnt like to be w here at all
telchar [1d\]: fondle?
Emerald [-\]: white should play at C9 now
JeffChang [9d\]:  http://www.experience-go.com/
ruufi: to make another group Emerald?
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
TheMeister [10k\]: it's not crazy-invadey whites turn right now
ruufi: i doubt
Emerald [-\]: white has too few weak groups
TheMeister [10k\]: he's going to do something safe. give one of his weak groups some basre
JeffChang [9d\]: In this year, we will invite some Top pro players to be our special coaches, Luo xihe 9d pro, (Samsung Cup world champion 2006), Chen yaoye (youngest 9d pro in the world), Fang tianfeng (8d pro, National champion ) and Yu ping (6d pro, Chinese national computer Go champion).  And some other Top pro players also on discussion. Welcome to join us !
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: w needs a move for c15
Tamsin [1k\]: I think white should stabilise the top...j15...leave C15 behind for now
nusatthu [-\]: d14
Emerald [-\]: the more weak groups you have, the easier it is to connect some of them together to make a stronger group
Mooshiro: for white, d12 and f15
tromp [-\]: Yu ping is a computer:-?
ruufi: you are smart Emerald but wrong^
t0Strong4u [-\]: lol why would you want more weak groups Emerald
arbi [10k\]: is there any byo yomi time in this game?
]
;W[ie]WL[2336.635]C[Uberdude [2d\]: yes
Tamsin [1k\]: yosh!
Uberdude [2d\]: optoins - > rules
PeteLiu [2p\]: what!
Airi [2d\]: jeff what happened to willzhang??
Sandmann [-\]: lol
Prodigious [6d?\]: Haha
HoangVu [-\]: hahahahaha
theend13 [5k\]: d14
elahrairah [2k\]: w shape is so... exotic !
Aberrance [13k\]: 5x 1 minutte
Cetoo [3k\]: white is short on time!
Warfreak2 [4d\]: willzhang got a job as far as i know
arbi [10k\]: thx
t0Strong4u [-\]: Pete not happy?
JeffChang [9d\]: warfreak2, yes
TheMeister [10k\]: so now they're both crazy >.<
HoangVu [-\]: white wants to pay attention to top right ...
Emerald [-\]: well. if the chance to make 1 weak group alive is 50%,  if you have 2 weak groups, only one group will live.  if you have 4 weak groups, 2 will live. so definitely the more the better
tromp [-\]: m13
HoangVu [-\]: pete wants to treat it lighter ...
PeteLiu [2p\]: Rengo game^^ where amazing happens
Tamsin [1k\]: I thuoght you`d all laugh at my suggestion, but he played it! 
Repacse [?\]: who is attacking who here ?
HoangVu [-\]: funny
ruufi: w m14 would work?
yoonaX [3k\]: emerald
icebucket [-\]: Run forest run!!!
HoangVu [-\]: I think pete should just submit to jack's style
yoonaX [3k\]: but you'd have more dead groups
HoangVu [-\]: easier for both haah XD
SaGOl [3d\]: maybe b p17?
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: Emerald, wrong lol
jeffywhite [2k\]: after each move  it always seems like the game is hard for the other side
RunningFox [2d\]: at least one of w groups is under attack?
iTa [-\]: b Q1O
Jormaz: s15, q17, m14
Maverik [5k\]: killing m16 seems better than killing  c15 , at least there are two b stones, not one ))
RunningFox [2d\]: M13 good?
ruufi: Emerald i herad one weak group is -20 points, 2 weak groups is -60 points, so it makes no sennse
skeptical [2d\]: i'd play n13 here
HoangVu [-\]: 2 weak groups usually one dies
SaGOl [3d\]: q17 for suree
RunningFox [2d\]: ok, killer:)
Namii [5d\]: Now this is something you don't see every day
icebucket [-\]: safe to peek first then M14?
Airi [2d\]: they play so slow
yoonaX [3k\]: every weak group would need some gote moves  to live/connect
RunningFox [2d\]: m14 a bit slow?
Emerald [-\]: ruufi, it looks like something that we must suggest to lee changho, so that he can purposely 'lag' behind during the game and come on top in the end.
Lionking [2d\]: benhu is grey
Lionking [2d\]: :D
Korea4K [2d\]: N14 ok
Tamsin [1k\]: I think whte can treat c15 as a probe...make it live, ko or give up its life for the greater good when the situation develops
RunningFox [2d\]: i like m13 better
JeffChang [9d\]: well I cannot understand J15..
ruufi: i dont think q17+
Emerald [-\]: J15 is an attack on M16
HoangVu [-\]: highlighting n17 stones :p
JeffChang [9d\]: it puts b in a dominating position
RunningFox [2d\]: J15 is special
Korea4K [2d\]: j15 will attack on wgroup right side
JeffChang [9d\]: special :D
Toph [3k?\]: D17 isn't safe yet, black have to think about it
Mooshiro: m13, noh
ruufi: p15 wedge and fight^
Cetoo [3k\]: j15 helps b attack right group
RunningFox [2d\]: j15 can't really attack B if B play M13 area
yoonaX [3k\]: b will attack p16 group
]
;B[mg]BL[2463.129]C[skeptical [2d\]: hoho!
Toph [3k?\]: if black can save it with P17 or something close to it, then saving D17 seems better
RunningFox [2d\]: :)
]
;W[bc]WL[2326.356]C[Emerald [-\]: ?????
RunningFox [2d\]: we have a pro here!
Emerald [-\]: white's plays aren't coming together...
Xylol [12k\]: its hard to read what jeff says so please all others a little bit more quiet (including me)
Korea4K [2d\]: b should answer D14 only move
JeffChang [9d\]: I think b is in an easy situation now
stupidzym [1k?\]: me2
RunningFox [2d\]: yes
stupidzym [1k?\]: agree
JeffChang [9d\]: w wanna attack b top left to get something back, which is not easy though
Uberdude [2d\]: see b17
JeffChang [9d\]: since w himself has weakness still
JeffChang [9d\]: like H16
daria [16k\]: guddhdjer
daria [16k\]: kfkflkldkldofo
daria [16k\]: lfjdldldkfldkf
daria [16k\]: ksldskdlsks;;AKSASLK
Airi [2d\]: ok
daria [16k\]: LDKLK;SA'ALSA'S
jeffywhite [2k\]: hey
timc [1k\]: Ban.
]
;B[df]BL[2357.485]C[jeffywhite [2k\]: stop spaming
Airi [2d\]: he writes too slowly
Korea4K [2d\]: first b should D14
Tamsin [1k\]: Jeff, what is the proper reply to h16?
Korea4K [2d\]: and attack H16
JeffChang [9d\]: ah well
JeffChang [9d\]: not timing for H16 yes
]
;W[cf]WL[2300.682]C[RunningFox [2d\]: h16 too early?
theend13 [5k\]: jeff, why b n13 before d14
]
;B[dg]BL[2351.723]C[JeffChang [9d\]: I guess
]
;W[cb]WL[2294.314]C[Antogo [8k\]: C5?
Antogo [8k\]: white
jeffywhite [2k\]: i think black is getting stronger before he has to attack
ruufi: if b7 to earlx
ruufi: b17*
Emerald [-\]: is white not worried about P16 at all?
mihi [4d\]: should black put one more stone to capture P16?
MafiaGo [3d\]: maybe q6 or something
RunningFox [2d\]: can b move somewhere else now?
Lionking [2d\]: e11 !
MafiaGo [3d\]: i think q6 will be ok
Korea4K [2d\]: H16 
mihi [4d\]: Q7 
Emerald [-\]: capturing P16 is probably sente..
mihi [4d\]: better than Q6
MafiaGo [3d\]: i think b should make preparation for it 1st 
illa [3k\]: maybe b should prevent w e18 
Tamsin [1k\]: can white make life in the upper left with s18?
RunningFox [2d\]: p4 area?
JeffChang [9d\]: N13 is big cos then w is almost dead there
MafiaGo [3d\]: q7 or q6 area
Tamsin [1k\]: upper right...I mean...
kookaburra [5k\]: b should respond here
XY0908 [-\]: Why 4 professional Go players paly rengo, not working?
JeffChang [9d\]: but yeah in fact at that moment b has choice
skeptical [2d\]: J13
JeffChang [9d\]: he can also take left side
HoangVu [-\]: I wanna r 15 and o 12 with white :p
Airi [2d\]: they are working, xy
HoangVu [-\]: sometime sin the future
Xylol [12k\]: ...
XY0908 [-\]: Is this a special promotional event?
HoangVu [-\]: sometime in the future*
meuns [2k\]: yes
Lilltiger [1d\]: the p16 stones are light, and eaven if b adds an extra move there it will still be atot of aji left
sentience [-\]: yes xy
Toph [3k?\]: it's probably night for them, so not working
Korea4K [2d\]: event game
RunningFox [2d\]: pros r pros
MrZNF [7k\]: tenuki ;D
XY0908 [-\]: This is very exciting.
Tamsin [1k\]: it`s late night here in Asia
RunningFox [2d\]: yep
Aberrance [13k\]: I look at this game as a fun game, not to serious.
Uberdude [2d\]: p3 
Tamsin [1k\]: and tomorrow is Sunday, so no need to go to bed early
Earnest [2k\]: they are playing to publicize their teaching event in China
Xylol [12k\]: is it possible to limitate the chat here?
Uberdude [2d\]: or is womthing urgent?
RunningFox [2d\]: y, i like p4/p3
]
;B[ig]BL[2161.18]C[TheMeister [10k\]: omg!
skeptical [2d\]: hoho!
RunningFox [2d\]: my...
Uberdude [2d\]: like b4 c3 d8 
XY0908 [-\]: J13 was my move ;-)
Repacse [?\]: wow
iTa [-\]: ???
TheMeister [10k\]: I was looking at that exact spot ^.^
kago [6k\]: p3 is small now
Uberdude [2d\]: to strengthen v
RunningFox [2d\]: J13 is a pro move!
Airi [2d\]: :O
Uberdude [2d\]: all these moves are pro moves
RunningFox [2d\]: very good
ibd [13k?\]: o rly
MafiaGo [3d\]: dont really get this move though o.o 
Uberdude [2d\]: doesn't mean they are good
meuns [2k\]: P16 dead ?
HoangVu [-\]: has aji
MafiaGo [3d\]: m18?
iTa [-\]: doesn't black take the advantage now?
JeffChang [9d\]: hmm
tromp [-\]: p16 in coma
SaGOl [3d\]: w can conect with e18
Uberdude [2d\]: w s18 later possible
kago [6k\]: b wants to make sure he gets one group
JeffChang [9d\]: this cap, didn't really seem to be a good one..
JeffChang [9d\]: w is kinda alive there
Uberdude [2d\]: w q8 area? 
HoangVu [-\]: yeah
Repacse [?\]: can he ask for an undo ?
Uberdude [2d\]: or shimari?
MafiaGo [3d\]: its sente i think
MafiaGo [3d\]: miai life*
t0Strong4u [-\]: can w tenuki
Uberdude [2d\]: of course w won't die if tenuki
Korea4K [2d\]: b make dam
HoangVu [-\]: but not wise 
Uberdude [2d\]: the question is can b profit much
tsuchigumo [-\]: Seems like a nice move, multipurpose
HoangVu [-\]: b can make white struggle a lot if tenuki
HoangVu [-\]: don't wanna give that much thickness
kookaburra [5k\]: Jeff, is it important for b to protect d15 weekness in prev move? is this cap just protection of that weekness? what do you think...
]
;W[ge]WL[2127.178]C[darkboy [3k\]: im gonna get some pop corn to watch this
MafiaGo [3d\]: now should q7 or something
yoonaX [3k\]: so what did j13 do
t0Strong4u [-\]: q7 
iTa [-\]: f14
JeffChang [9d\]: well
JeffChang [9d\]: D15 is not a big problem I guess : )
theend13 [5k\]: now there is the future aji of cutiing at d15 once the ladder works
Maverik [5k\]: why not e18 instead of g15 
kookaburra [5k\]: :)
dalamyst [1k\]: WOW what a rengo
]
;B[fc]BL[2082.972]C[MafiaGo [3d\]: i think b is trying to prevent w from coming out
Aberrance [13k\]: white is in the closet?
tromp [-\]: g18
Aberrance [13k\]: *not funny*
MafiaGo [3d\]: enclose w probably
iTa [-\]: why f17
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
]
;W[gb]WL[2087.01]C[JeffChang [9d\]: In this year, we will invite some Top pro players to be our special coaches, Luo xihe 9d pro, (Samsung Cup world champion 2006), Chen yaoye (youngest 9d pro in the world), Fang tianfeng (8d pro, National champion ) and Yu ping (6d pro, Chinese national computer Go champion).  And some other Top pro players also on discussion. Welcome to join us !
Xylol [12k\]: hehe
darkboy [3k\]: business is business
mihi [4d\]: how old is Chen Yaoye?
elohimmeth [1k\]: will they make a match here?
HoangVu [-\]: 20
HoangVu [-\]: I think
HoangVu [-\]: or 19
JeffChang [9d\]: hmm, 19-20, yes
tromp [-\]: this excahnge seems to help w
darkboy [3k\]: chen yaoye the best
MrZNF [7k\]: G13?
mihi [4d\]: Didn't Lee Changho become 9p at 18?
kookaburra [5k\]: for me seems that last 4 moves are about d15 weekness... %)
]
;B[en]BL[1967.318]C[TheMeister [10k\]: I was thinking E5...
TheMeister [10k\]: or F2, they both make good walls
darkboy [3k\]: chen yayoe became 9p by beatin lee chang ho :p
Toph [3k?\]: well, E5 would be bad, it's about shape with C6
Toph [3k?\]: very strong and solid here
MrZNF [7k\]: F2? xD
MatchFree [-\]: f2 makes a wall?
yoonaX [3k\]: hard to win for w from here
gostking [4k\]: p3
MrZNF [7k\]: w made to many groups right?
t0Strong4u [-\]: b def seems favorable
MrZNF [7k\]: although black isn't really connected everywhere...
Toph [3k?\]: white can go out in G13, but i don't like the idea now, C8 area is already for black
RunningFox [2d\]: b does not have any weak grp so far
MafiaGo [3d\]: i think i would g8 or something 
]
;W[ff]WL[1912.989]C[MafiaGo [3d\]: i wonder b would tenuki this o.o
Toph [3k?\]: oh, nice, he go out in sente
bakedsagi [4k\]: 'this' is about the weakness.
meuns [2k\]: impossible
TheMeister [10k\]: now he's just helping black 0.o
robertm [1d\]: what will white do with upper right?
MrZNF [7k\]: nothing
]
;B[de]BL[1911.694]C[MrZNF [7k\]: save it for later
MrZNF [7k\]: aji and stuff
amuna [2d\]: b is not going to connect
]
;W[bp]WL[1897.722]C[bakedsagi [4k\]: good question. looks quite dead
MrZNF [7k\]: he just did :p
Cannon [7k?\]: I feel b is more in sync with himself
MafiaGo [3d\]: g12?
Maverik [5k\]: f13 
Cannon [7k?\]: w is confused amidst himself
Lionking [2d\]: time to play p4 soon
t0Strong4u [-\]: q7 
nusatthu [-\]: p4 now
zkaje [7k\]: doesnt  p4 bigger then b4?
yoonaX [3k\]: I would play p4
kookaburra [5k\]: aimin at c8...
MrZNF [7k\]: P4 black will result in a pincer
Toph [3k?\]: the rengo problem is to read in the mind of your teammate, and white players seems to have divergence
Cannon [7k?\]: w is like 2 different minds
Darius87 [?\]: b4 big
MrZNF [7k\]: I don't think black is going to like that
Cannon [7k?\]: and b is like 2 minds fused into 1
]
;B[qm]BL[1825.546]C[nidza92 [-\]: b4 aims at some invasion to split  b
loookj [2k\]: like hikaru and sai hahaha
bonta [1k\]: lol r7 was the move i was thinking of
Jormaz: 2 players is like 2 differend minds.. how odd.
Striker [-\]: w is like braindead? ^^
bisons [13k\]: white may be want b attak R4 to give him the corner and make influence to the center?
t0Strong4u [-\]: well, i got the general area down lol
Cannon [7k?\]: w has inner struggles
petrichor [?\]: maybe 1p will read into 3p strategy and respect it moreso than two 2p?
gostking [4k\]: k4
TheMeister [10k\]: the difference between a 1p and a 3p is half a stone
]
;W[oq]WL[1807.758]C[tsuchigumo [-\]: w's play has no whole board cohesion imo
Vade [3k\]: or no stones
theend13 [5k\]: Jeff, do you read any kind of good aji for w with the upper right stones ?
JeffChang [9d\]: well
JeffChang [9d\]: on top right
t0Strong4u [-\]: s16 
nidza92 [-\]: s16 only thing he can try
nidza92 [-\]: i think
JeffChang [9d\]: if w really wanna live there it's possible I think
JeffChang [9d\]: however w will need to give b strong shape around
DanielTom [2d\]: if a pro wants to live, he can :)
Uberdude [2d\]: leave that for the 6th group
Uberdude [2d\]: got to amk another one first
]
;B[fh]BL[1757.412]C[Toph [3k?\]: once, i have played with a dan, he was stronger than me, so i was following his ideas, and it was working pretty well.
TheMeister [10k\]: *nods* finally
RunningFox [2d\]: i like p4 better than R7
limestruck [2k\]: f12 looks nice
ibd [13k?\]: yes
Uberdude [2d\]: yes f12 is surely a nice point
hanming [12k\]: do you think w can still win?
tsuchigumo [-\]: B is playing like Takemiya, connecting everything
Uberdude [2d\]: if w gets reduces and later could attacj b
nyri [4k\]: Uberdude, your OGS game is timeouting in a few hours. Woudn't want to lose title match.
CodeBreak [1k\]: B is takemiya
CodeBreak [1k\]: XD
CodeBreak [1k\]: lol
ShadeWolf [4k\]: lol
Airi [2d\]: lol
Uberdude [2d\]: nyri =)
tromp [-\]: p7
Uberdude [2d\]: but this game so interesting
]
;W[pl]WL[1723.198]C[zkaje [7k\]: 560 viewers
Uberdude [2d\]: last one i timed out cos my brakes broke and i crashed by bike into a bollard
kookaburra [5k\]: !
]
;B[ql]BL[1721.532]C[Uberdude [2d\]: i'm in bed now so hopefully no chance of that kind of thing
theend13 [5k\]: looks like white has r0 pts + komi, black too but much more influence
theend13 [5k\]: 30
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
Nith [6k\]: whites thrown away top right?`
JeffChang [9d\]: In this year, we will invite some Top pro players to be our special coaches, Luo xihe 9d pro, (Samsung Cup world champion 2006), Chen yaoye (youngest 9d pro in the world), Fang tianfeng (8d pro, National champion ) and Yu ping (6d pro, Chinese national computer Go champion).  And some other Top pro players also on discussion. Welcome to join us !
Uberdude [2d\]: this shoulder hit gives b a lot of territory
]
;W[pj]WL[1665.335]C[yoonaX [3k\]: the end are you serious about 0 points
]
;B[ol]BL[1714.222]C[Toge [2k\]: How old is Chen yaoye?
theend13 [5k\]: ;-) 30
Cannon [7k?\]: chen yaoye
Uberdude [2d\]: oo agressive move
kookaburra [5k\]: hard game for w
MrZNF [7k\]: A whole board seki :)
Nith [6k\]: whites pretty much thrown away top right huh?
JeffChang [9d\]: 19 or 20 
Cannon [7k?\]: was he not the one who barely lost in nec cup final?
MrZNF [7k\]: has that ever occured?
starcraft3: he's 19 now and became 9p at 17
]
;W[rd]WL[1630.604]C[ArekM [5k\]: not agresiv but punish for q10
Vade [3k\]: nith, where did you get that idea?
telchar [1d\]: letsu go
Cannon [7k?\]: against gu li?
Nith [6k\]: just looked weak as hell
Jormaz: telchar, that sounds like how Yan An pronounced it in china o.o
Aberrance [13k\]: finally
]
;B[re]BL[1660.651]C[Himeyuki [13k\]: so white will tenuki on top right for life?
ArekM [5k\]: not for much, s13 is consequently playied
]
;W[qe]WL[1591.734]C[HoangVu [-\]: o 18
Cannon [7k?\]: or what it was
Cannon [7k?\]: samsung world cup?
]
;B[sd]BL[1651.36]
;W[pd]WL[1588.353]C[Aberrance [13k\]: the heat is on
zkaje [7k\]: any relationships between corner and q10?
ArekM [5k\]: blacks looks more solid
]
;B[rd]BL[1577.747]C[graphics18 [13k\]: r14
ArekM [5k\]: relationship ? yes at least 5 or 6 
Toph [3k?\]: if R14 now, i see something to do with Q10
ArekM [5k\]: in dan level 10 in pro level 50 
ArekM [5k\]: :>
HoangVu [-\]: n 14
Airi [2d\]: what can w do
ArekM [5k\]: r14 ?
JeffChang [9d\]: I did'n't get w plan on top right so far
HoangVu [-\]: xD
HoangVu [-\]: white just gonna run with weak group and destroy territory
zkaje [7k\]: where to run?)
Toph [3k?\]: oops, i have to think about R14, seems black one liberty i have not counted yet
zkaje [7k\]: arekm, 5 or 6? where did u take this numbers from?
ArekM [5k\]: white have to finish in sente this sequence 
Elscouta [4k\]: you usually die in sente, so that should not be a problem
tsuchigumo [-\]: f12 and j13 shining brightly
Warfreak2 [4d\]: that's what i was thinking, elcouta
ArekM [5k\]: zkaje:k14 r14 s18 r9 and some other 
amuna [2d\]: tenuki
PlumeMoi [1d\]: loool i that a rengo pro game wooooooooooow:
goacn01 [1k\]: Q7
ArekM [5k\]: k4 not k14
kuikentje [1k\]: he can probably take sente right now, if that is his major concern :>
Toph [3k?\]: Q15 is sente, and P13 following seems good
icebucket [-\]: nah.. if W wanted tenuki. wouldn't have played R15
zkaje [7k\]: arekm, the discussion is about corner
ruufi: n14
MrZNF [7k\]: N15 > N14 imo
graphics18 [13k\]: why not r14?
HoangVu [-\]: i think white can capture p 8
ruufi: what n15 does?
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: p13
ruufi: nothing
MrZNF [7k\]: R14, Q15, R13, R12
MrZNF [7k\]: than what?
skeptical [2d\]: p13 or tenuki
MrZNF [7k\]: black has a liberty more
icebucket [-\]: 'cause R14 doesn't help W
PlumeMoi [1d\]: q18
ArekM [5k\]: q10 is conected with r17 in other case this has no sense to play like white  
ruufi: q18 or n14
Toph [3k?\]: R14 don't work, of course
]
;W[me]WL[1272.848]C[ruufi: o
]
;B[le]BL[1569.166]C[MrZNF [7k\]: N15, totd ya =)
ruufi: i dont get this move:(
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
HoangVu [-\]: o12
Frauling [8d\]: Das spiel macht mir viel Spass
]
;W[mf]WL[1245.41]C[JeffChang [9d\]: In this year, we will invite some Top pro players to be our special coaches, Luo xihe 9d pro, (Samsung Cup world champion 2006), Chen yaoye (youngest 9d pro in the world), Fang tianfeng (8d pro, National champion ) and Yu ping (6d pro, Chinese national computer Go champion).  And some other Top pro players also on discussion. Welcome to join us !
JeffChang [9d\]: w wanna live inside directly 
]
;B[lf]BL[1549.414]C[bonta [1k\]: alive!
ruufi: not alive
houdini [2k\]: lol
MrZNF [7k\]: and not in sente
hanming [12k\]: souda we're alive
Toph [3k?\]: it's alive, no problem
]
;W[ng]WL[1205.482]C[ruufi: k4 becomes huge^
RunningFox [2d\]: well,pros seldome make large grp dead unless...
Toph [3k?\]: and later, R14 would work
tsuchigumo [-\]: b's moyo swells
ShadeWolf [4k\]: Yoda Norimoto sacrafices large groups regularly
]
;B[mh]BL[1512.811]C[icebucket [-\]: Ah... now R15 will become useful.
]
;W[pe]WL[1199.154]C[RunningFox [2d\]: that is why i lkie P4 instead of R7 lol
Uberdude [2d\]: shadewolkf,a are you sure?
Uberdude [2d\]: regualrly or frequently?
ShadeWolf [4k\]: yes
iTa [-\]: o 15
iTa [-\]: :)
ShadeWolf [4k\]: it's a style thing for him
HoangVu [-\]: or he just dies
Warfreak2 [4d\]: regularly, strictly speaking, means "with regularity"
headlice: great idea for a promotion game
HoangVu [-\]: and have to make do with a sacrifice
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: w has to live in sente to get a good result
Warfreak2 [4d\]: eg he does it once per month, without exception
graphics18 [13k\]: b r14
GoIsGod [6k\]: any group is disposable given sufficient compensation
peter2 [2k\]: I often sacrifice large groups
ruufi: r14 bad shape
Warfreak2 [4d\]: well that's just the definition of the word "sufficient", isn't it
denote11 [4k?\]: hmmm for b r14 /s14 is the easiset route...but definitely not the best
Vade [3k\]: sufficient compensation is getting rid of junk stones
]
;B[nh]BL[1401.13]C[Vade [3k\]: and still winning the game
robertm [1d\]: dieing isn't necessarily sacrificing
HoangVu [-\]: same as "any moral can be broken" given sufficient compensation?
HoangVu [-\]: that's low
Warfreak2 [4d\]: it is if you're a pro, robert :>
Airi [2d\]: pros never die
iTa [-\]: p13
Warfreak2 [4d\]: hoangvu, it's not saying that there is such thing as sufficient compensation
Warfreak2 [4d\]: eg if your group spans the whole board, there can be no sufficient compensation for sacrificing it
graphics18 [13k\]: o17?
Toph [3k?\]: R14 now... easy, and powerful
Uberdude [2d\]: i sacrifice large groups against warfeak2
HoangVu [-\]: maybe to make the opponent happy?
]
;W[qf]WL[1131.704]C[denote11 [4k?\]: s16 moves into the corner
Uberdude [2d\]: i know he will get sloppy and greedy and they will come back to life :p
HoangVu [-\]: Lol
]
;B[qg]BL[1383.176]C[meuns [2k\]: R18 ?
]
;W[rf]WL[1119.376]C[meuns [2k\]: Q18 ?
]
;B[rg]BL[1380.218]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: in that case, it's a vacuous truth that if you were to get sufficient compensation, it would be worth the sacrifice - it's impossible to get sufficient compensation, and a false thing implies everything
denote11 [4k?\]: r18 expected soon
TheMeister [10k\]: doesn't R18 kill W?
graphics18 [13k\]: yes
Uberdude [2d\]: or q18 
denote11 [4k?\]: possibly
denote11 [4k?\]: w should let be connect
denote11 [4k?\]: *b
tsuchigumo [-\]: This looks woeful for w.
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: q18 to live
denote11 [4k?\]: still bad
]
;W[sg]WL[1037.091]C[RunningFox [2d\]: the key is how it becomes alive
RunningFox [2d\]: :)
CardCaptor [1k\]: woeful?
ArekM [5k\]: R13 or  s16
CardCaptor [1k\]: LOL
Airi [2d\]: :>
CardCaptor [1k\]: is that a word???
loookj [2k\]: there s ko?
ArekM [5k\]: eye for eye
robertm [1d\]: yes, it is a word
Toph [3k?\]: there will probably be a ko...
ketchup [-\]: sacrifice for huge moyo!
graphics18 [13k\]: i don't understand that move
ArekM [5k\]: word, witch word ?
JeffChang [9d\]: still very complicated
Makulu [-\]: seki?
denote11 [4k?\]: woeful...
JeffChang [9d\]: I'm trying to read it out ^^
Toph [3k?\]: T13 is a cutting move
denote11 [4k?\]: is a word
Airi [2d\]: ko
ryot [6k\]: pro rengo :O
ArekM [5k\]: or which word ?
MafiaGo [3d\]: i would t14
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: t13=fighting move
TheMeister [10k\]: black should just let W settle. Each stone added to the CE6 wall garuntees him 10 points. How much is the corner worth?
JeffChang [9d\]: it seems b has to R18 now
goacn01 [1k\]: seki
denote11 [4k?\]: ....
quique [16k?\]: p12
]
;B[sf]BL[1262.145]C[Airi [2d\]: KO!!!
Warfreak2 [4d\]: much more than 10 points, the corner is worth
Uberdude [2d\]: funziess
JeffChang [9d\]: ah ok...
Toph [3k?\]: corner is worth 15 points
sakuranbo [1d\]: hehe
HoangVu [-\]: 50
Warfreak2 [4d\]: and be wary of "guaranteed 10 points"
Toph [3k?\]: err, yes, 50 for black if white is killed
Komodo [1d\]: r18 now?
Antogo [8k\]: Q17 miai
Antogo [8k\]: right?
iTa [-\]: it will be more fun during the byoyomi
Totti10 [6k\]: q18
antonk [5k\]: ko?
meuns [2k\]: no
]
;W[se]WL[885.518]C[antonk [5k\]: ko
meuns [2k\]: just Q18 ?
TheMeister [10k\]: I have to go >.<
TheMeister [10k\]: and that's sucha  big move to Q.Q
graphics18 [13k\]: b q17
TheMeister [10k\]: B T12
loveHER [6d\]: r18 imo..
a11111 [12k\]: dont pros know how many ko threats there are? ?
denote11 [4k?\]: lol
loveHER [6d\]: i like g4 for black when he gets the chance..
NguyenVu [7k\]: S12
]
;B[qb]BL[1187.996]C[icebucket [-\]: another ko?
loveHER [6d\]: there is no ko now, the corner is alive
iTa [-\]: could black live in the corner?
ArekM [5k\]: q17 
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
JeffChang [9d\]: If you're interested, please check out our website, or contact Jeff or Peter directly, thanks!
brainiaq [3k\]: w needs to live first
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: black is living in the corner, seems like white is dead ?
]
;W[pc]WL[818.685]C[meuns [2k\]: w will die badly :s
Airi [2d\]: :<
Frauling [8d\]: 2009 Go experience in Beijing is amazing trip for each go enthusiast f 
graphics18 [13k\]: yes
Totti10 [6k\]: i dont like this ko for w
ArekM [5k\]: easly live 
]
;B[sf]BL[1167.736]C[Facebook [6d\]: poppy, what do you think about the position?
icebucket [-\]: nobi?
ArekM [5k\]: s18 
graphics18 [13k\]: o17
darkboy [3k\]: poppy is christian pop ?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: nope
graphics18 [13k\]: he needs to live
quique [16k?\]: p12
Toph [3k?\]: P13, and O16 for the ko
Warfreak2 [4d\]: poppy is the latest victim of the gosensations rumour mill
meuns [2k\]: hehehe
Airi [2d\]: poppy = tartrate
HoangVu [-\]: q 18
iTa [-\]: black should be more agressive
graphics18 [13k\]: i guess
goacn01 [1k\]: T12
antonk [5k\]: s18 ?
Toph [3k?\]: Q18 seems bad because it help black (S18)
Cannon [7k?\]: poppy is chinese for papa
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: t18 ?
antonk [5k\]: s18?
Cannon [7k?\]: I am surprised no one mentioned it
graphics18 [13k\]: mentioned what
Toph [3k?\]: not now, S18, only when T14 is taken by white
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: t18 seems fine
MuddyBlues [1d\]: p13
antonk [5k\]: t12?
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: makes w live if b takes t13
Frauling [8d\]: high quality training and wonderful travaling will make everybody cool
]
;W[sb]WL[617.293]C[darkboy [3k\]: aand some pokets full of money
goacn01 [1k\]: who is stronger here, 1p or 9d?
zkaje [7k\]: bravo waterandgo
Elscouta [4k\]: well you can't blame professionnals to not try to make money out of go :/
graphics18 [13k\]: where will black go
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: my call >.>
northpole: 100k is stronger;)
zkaje [7k\]: q18
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: q18 > p18
]
;B[rb]BL[1092.405]C[dragunov2: q18 s18
JeffChang [9d\]: it seems tough for w as my reading
]
;W[se]WL[609.351]C[norg [5k\]: Surely the whole T12 thing makes trying to kill that a wasted ecercise...?
]
;B[pb]BL[1090.302]C[darkboy [3k\]: you are right Elscouta
Toph [3k?\]: yes q18 s18 was the best way for white
ArekM [5k\]: so then... white has one way
Laktor [12k\]: W P18
bobo [9k\]: wow
bobo [9k\]: team pros
darkboy [3k\]: welcome :)
bobo [9k\]: thisa propmotional game?
darkboy [3k\]: sure
graphics18 [13k\]: this is the game if white dies
koro: banjai
kookaburra [5k\]: hm, I wonder why the thinking about move like s18 so long. Do they read feather flowing of the game or what?
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009", bolbo : )
]
;W[sf]WL[561.157]C[JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
bobo [9k\]: thank you
PlumeMoi [1d\]: ok ok
a11111 [12k\]: im the 600th viewer ?_?
JeffChang [9d\]: Please read our website for more information if you're interested, thanks ; )
MuddyBlues [1d\]: nice
MuddyBlues [1d\]: that seems sente
Toph [3k?\]: T14 now, yess. i don't like the idea to attack black with P18 now
zkaje [7k\]: p13
ArekM [5k\]: JeffChang: we know... dont flood to much
MuddyBlues [1d\]: p18 only move
Antogo [8k\]: or O18?
quique [16k?\]: p13
Warfreak2 [4d\]: p18 isn't the only move
Antogo [8k\]: ^^
Warfreak2 [4d\]: o17 is mine
Chamm [4k\]: o17
MuddyBlues [1d\]: :)
iTa [-\]: did white reverse the situation?
zkaje [7k\]: p13
meuns [2k\]: another ko ?
]
;B[ri]BL[1004.861]C[tsuchigumo [-\]: lol
Antogo [8k\]: LOL
brainiaq [3k\]: ???
Maverik [5k\]: ohhh
Antogo [8k\]: damn
ArekM [5k\]: The question is where white will make eyes ?
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: p18 now
DrakeBell [5d\]: p18 q19 
brainiaq [3k\]: were will b make eyes?
tsuchigumo [-\]: You guys just don't think like pros
chiawyee [8k\]: is black dead?
Toge [2k\]:  
mihoda [2k?\]: yeah, bent fourc becomes a ko
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: black will get a ko for life ?
ahwong [3k?\]: p18, t1
LSF [6k\]: white will not make eyes
LSF [6k\]: w will die
Antogo [8k\]: b wil
teralaser [5k\]: p13
Nith [6k\]: he will survive
Nith [6k\]: p13
Antogo [8k\]: b will die right? :S
mihoda [2k?\]: p18... q19... s19... then black has a bent four eyspace
mihoda [2k?\]: and W must start a ko
]
;W[ob]WL[497.049]
;B[nc]BL[1002.538]C[Mimas [1d\]: both will die
JeffChang [9d\]: w will probably play the ko on top right
Komodo [1d\]: ko for the corner 
Frauling [8d\]: Last year I was lucky to be one of the visiting teacher,I will join them this year too
JeffChang [9d\]: very tough but only way...
tsuchigumo [-\]: w is toast imo
JeffChang [9d\]: thanks frauling ^^
DrakeBell [5d\]: w dies before the ko
bonta [1k\]: w resign
Warfreak2 [4d\]: frauling, you visited last year?
Uberdude [2d\]: looks like a bent four in the corner but that's got a lot of libs
ArekM [5k\]: White have to kill...
bonta [1k\]: theres nothing to kill..
Firzen [2d\]: who are you then frauling?
meuns [2k\]: are you a top chinese pro fauling ?!
bonta [1k\]: w is dead
]
;W[oc]WL[452.152]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: now i'm curious
Deich [2k?\]: w not dead
Deich [2k?\]: its ko
bonta [1k\]: how is there a ko?
Antogo [8k\]: yep
Antogo [8k\]: corner
zkaje [7k\]: no ko
bonta [1k\]: b q19
DrakeBell [5d\]: Q19
mihoda [2k?\]: ko in the corner, bent four after S19 Q19
jeffywhite [2k\]: q19?
saimic [4k\]: there is no ko. its seki
Frauling [8d\]: no ,I am not top pro in China
bonta [1k\]: if w s19, how is it a ko?
Frauling [8d\]: yeah
ArekM [5k\]: corner will live is seki 
Warfreak2 [4d\]: saimac, go read get strong at L+D again
bonta [1k\]: w is dead
mihoda [2k?\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?BentFourInTheCorner
mihoda [2k?\]: read all about it
cloud [1d\]: its a ko...
Elscouta [4k\]: learn your shapes, guys
jeffywhite [2k\]: thanks mihoda
PlumeMoi [1d\]: b dead no ko
cloud [1d\]: its not that hard..
jeffywhite [2k\]: i was just gonna say that
mosdefgo [6k?\]: s19 is ko for life of black
ahwong [3k?\]: t19
JeffChang [9d\]: it is bent 4 in the corner, but w doesn't have much liberty outside
Antogo [8k\]: B is dead
saimic [4k\]: ok .. there are one million ko in beijing.
jeffywhite [2k\]: i agree with jeff
mihoda [2k?\]: right... w has few libs
Antogo [8k\]: if he doesnt kill white first
Warfreak2 [4d\]: that's a fact?
jeffywhite [2k\]: cus jeff is me
mihoda [2k?\]: so he's forced to start the ko
HoangVu [-\]: black Q 19
JeffChang [9d\]: jeffwhite ^^
iTa [-\]: q19
meuns [2k\]: hehe
]
;B[pa]BL[890.588]C[ahwong [3k?\]: t19
U505: no bent 4 anymore
Antogo [8k\]: s19
saimic [4k\]: WHAT KO?!
PlumeMoi [1d\]: wheere ko???
mihoda [2k?\]: s19 MAKES the bent four
Deich [2k?\]: s19 ko
HoangVu [-\]: if white want bent four need s19
Oloril [2k\]: s19 is bent 4
HoangVu [-\]: but lots of liberties
U505: no
mihoda [2k?\]: W can Partially fill at R19 or T17 after that to make the bent four
Negunsd [5k\]: ko where? +.+
ArekM [5k\]: W S19 kills P15 
Firzen [2d\]: ah I remember
ahwong [3k?\]: s19, r19
antonk [5k\]: s19?
Antogo [8k\]: isnt the bent four pretty rare?
Airi [2d\]: depends if w has enoough libs
zkaje [7k\]: w s19 no ko
drau [5k\]: s19 
DrakeBell [5d\]: p19 
mihoda [2k?\]: W S19, WT19, W R19 makes a BENT four
Vade [3k\]: antogo, this is not the special case either
Deich [2k?\]: s19 r 19 lol its suicide
Frauling [8d\]: hallo firzen
LSF [6k\]: lots of libs still a ko, more stages, but b have to play twice to win
ArekM [5k\]: no seki no live 
MuddyBlues [1d\]: p13 gives life for both ?
Antogo [8k\]: ?
LSF [6k\]: so w get a extra move out
coldnight [2k\]: i ones won a game on a bend four ko librety  fight
mihoda [2k?\]: Black is Forced to capture due to lack of outside libs and make the bent four
coldnight [2k\]: it was so cool
meuns [2k\]: i said ko at T14 ^^
Firzen [2d\]: we played mah-jong I believe ^^
Chrille [3k\]: s19 temprary seki?
dragunov2: no seki no ko no life and no death !!
loveHER [6d\]: it seems white has lost this game allready
mihoda [2k?\]: Diagram 3.1 http://senseis.xmp.net/?BentFourInTheCorner
coldnight [2k\]: yap
loveHER [6d\]: corner is dead with bent four, but it has 3 million libs
katatonia [3k\]: white is dead
Airi [2d\]: i dont think white has enough libss
loveHER [6d\]: white will die first
HoangVu [-\]: ko black take first
jeffywhite [2k\]: white dies first
U505: this game is too slow
coldnight [2k\]: yap he will die first
]
;W[oa]WL[325.244]C[wwwkgscom [3k?\]: loveHER, count again
teralaser [5k\]: doesnt w p19 and then w m19 make w escape ?
Antogo [8k\]: LOL
drau [5k\]: p12 ?
HoangVu [-\]: ah
mihoda [2k?\]: someonwow fail
Warfreak2 [4d\]: direct ko afaict
norg [5k\]: ?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: but b takes first
ArekM [5k\]: p13 gives live for both ??? Haw it's possible ?
Zharf [-\]: o.O
mihoda [2k?\]: W just dies now?
TheBeast [?\]: 3,000,000 libs will take all week to play out
]
;B[nb]BL[861.842]C[Deich [2k?\]: now ko
cloud [1d\]: heh
yoonaX [3k\]: w dead
Antogo [8k\]: w resign
Deich [2k?\]: come on
U505: zzz
Deich [2k?\]: not dead!
elohimmeth [1k\]: what ko ?
tryanderr: b givves his group fot sente
dandalon [3k\]: rofl..
Frauling [8d\]: Weiss du ? Ich kann ein bisschen  Deutsch sprechen
Deich [2k?\]: bended four involves a ko+
U505: rengo is allways boting
meuns [2k\]: Hehehe
Antogo [8k\]: but black could have stopped it
amycheetah [6k\]: it's not a bended four
MuddyBlues [1d\]: it seems like a direct ko to kill or live
Airi [2d\]: das ist gut
saimic [4k\]: TRIPLE KO
ArekM [5k\]: O19 !
nano1: can somebody explain the last two moves?
somosdios [4k\]: ja sehr gut
au2 [?\]: b wins this ?
Antogo [8k\]: and deich
elohimmeth [1k\]: oh yeah i see the ko
Moon9 [1k\]: s19
meuns [2k\]: why not s19 now ?
Novalys [4k\]: s19 is seki, no ko
mihoda [2k?\]: 4 vs 5, i think black wins
Warfreak2 [4d\]: guys
JeffChang [9d\]: o18 to block w connection
Antogo [8k\]: a bent four does not ALWAYS involve a ko
Moon9 [1k\]: s19 ko
HoangVu [-\]: S19 is NOT seki
Spiriteb [2d\]: direct ko black takes first
elohimmeth [1k\]: s19 t19 r19 t17 s19  is ko
harrimanez [-\]: prevent L18 connect
Warfreak2 [4d\]: everyone who says it's seki, go read get strong at L+D again
Vade [3k\]: novalys, no it's not
zkaje [7k\]: what was p19? 
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: b cant be killed on the corner, so he isolates w and kill him
tsuchigumo [-\]: I am offering Go experience in Berlin for out-of-form professionals, excellent amateur teachers and free wurst.
Tinkerbals [3d\]: 5 lib s. 5?
amuna [2d\]: no ko
gostking [4k\]: p13
zkaje [7k\]: p19 could connect k17?
Airi [2d\]: i dont read go books
zkaje [7k\]: why o18
Donete [3d\]: s19 o19 t19 o16 r19 t17 s19 
barakeel [1k\]: why no ko
TheBeast [?\]: 639 opinions
Donete [3d\]: ko
solmaz [2k\]: w s18 makes ko (bend four)
norg [5k\]: It takes w 3 gote moves just to set up the ko
Antogo [8k\]: w resign
iTa [-\]: s19
DrakeBell [5d\]: its ko but w have no ko threats at all
HoangVu [-\]: 4*
coldnight [2k\]: Jerry didnt I get a chence to tell  you congrets for the tournament
ArekM [5k\]: So if its promotion game they should finish now !!!
Toge [2k\]: White plays S19, what is black going to play to make it ko?
Deich [2k?\]: tsuchigumo : curry36, heisse hexe und ne parkbank an der hasenheide?
Tinkerbals [3d\]: the question is not if there is a ko
solmaz [2k\]: s19 indeed ^^
Hobor [1k\]: wsell
cloud [1d\]: even if white kills black somehow... black might still be winning
Tinkerbals [3d\]: the question is: how many moves to capture
Hobor [1k\]: is there a KO threat?
ArekM [5k\]: in other case who wont to learn play like white :)
sakuranbo [1d\]: poor peteliu :p
Airi [2d\]: lol game is only 77 moves
ArekM [5k\]: *want
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: white is one lib behind
Frauling [8d\]: Go experience is also a good chance to have fun and take a rest
GoForFun [2k\]: why B not S19 to live?
iTa [-\]: 3 min left
ssaer [4k?\]: Why did b play o18? Wouldn't it be better to just make life with s19?
]
;W[pm]WL[163.479]C[shinfuseki [4d\]: I think w has to create some local threat
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: white is one lib behind to set up the ko
barakeel [1k\]: what s wrong with p13
bonta [1k\]: who wants to click on the resign button!?
barakeel [1k\]: now?
Antogo [8k\]: lool
brainiaq [3k\]: sac
teralaser [5k\]: wow
tsuchigumo [-\]: To paraphrase Hoffnung "French widows offering splendid prospects"
bonta [1k\]: white cant negotiate with himself
Airi [2d\]: i cant click it :(
shinfuseki [4d\]: or not local but at least big
enz8 [4k\]: s19 015
iTa [-\]: white resign
Uberdude [2d\]: making some ko threats?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: yeah
PlumeMoi [1d\]: w dead?
Deich [2k?\]: q7 prepares the ko
JeffChang [9d\]: I guess so
barakeel [1k\]: w dead
JeffChang [9d\]: but well still not big enough
LSF [6k\]: w have tree cornes, two of them big
HoangVu [-\]: if q19 white got threat
Warfreak2 [4d\]: it's direct ko, if w plays next, but b takes first
LSF [6k\]: game still playable
HoangVu [-\]: 9*
womack [1k\]: 19 stone sac ?
amuna [2d\]: need cappy for a resque
PlumeMoi [1d\]: what ko warfreeak??
Antogo [8k\]: Plumemoi
PlumeMoi [1d\]: everybody say ko, there is no ko!
Uberdude [2d\]: i suppose b did get very thick, but points wise w didn't lose a huge amount
Antogo [8k\]: S19=KO
hikaru361 [14k\]: why not p13?
JeffChang [9d\]: ko in the corner, later in semeai
elohimmeth [1k\]: w s19 t19 r19  take s19
Burton [6k\]: I believe the black corner is alive now
Warfreak2 [4d\]: s19 o16 t19 o15 p15 p13 r19 t17 s19 o14 t18 is the ko
Burton [6k\]: because w at S19 is a seki, black cannot atari
coldnight [2k\]: NO seki
PlumeMoi [1d\]: what this sequence lo ?
Hobor [1k\]: no
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: still ko, i misread one part earlier
JayG136 [4k\]: lol
Hobor [1k\]: it;s KO
zdli2002 [2d\]: s12
Airi [2d\]: lol
iTa [-\]: where is the ko?
Hobor [1k\]: not seki
Warfreak2 [4d\]: burton, go read get strong at L+D again, i already told you
enz8 [4k\]: is four in the coener but black won the semeai
PlumeMoi [1d\]: !no ko!
Uberdude [2d\]: Burton, so blaack captures the outisde group instead
jeffywhite [2k\]: S19 NOT SEKI!!!!!!!!
Hobor [1k\]: S19
HoangVu [-\]: stop arguing with kyus
zdli2002 [2d\]: t12
Hobor [1k\]: white s19 then T19
HoangVu [-\]: they don't even know what seki is
Mimas [1d\]: calm down guys lets watch the game
Hobor [1k\]: lmfao
Hobor [1k\]: okay
Antogo [8k\]: ITS A KO ALRIGHT, DEAL WITH IT!
Hobor [1k\]: every one shhh
JayG136 [4k\]: this is so funny how noone sees this ko, actually i was confinced it was seki for a while until so many high dans said ko
northpole: believing isn't good enough. you have to be certain.;)
Hobor [1k\]: let's the high level dan's comment!
supercan [?\]: w is dead no matter what
Hobor [1k\]: xD
PlumeMoi [1d\]: noone can play t19 after s19!!!
Uberdude [2d\]: i think we need sixsix's picture
fishcat [6d\]: 90% dead
Warfreak2 [4d\]: plumemoi, white can
Hobor [1k\]: white can play
Hobor [1k\]: T19
Striker [-\]: *knock knock*
dandalon [3k\]: xD
goacn01 [1k\]: ko
Airi [2d\]: whos there
Striker [-\]: A Ko 
Burton [6k\]: If W s19 how can black atari?????
LSF [6k\]: PLEASE FOLLOW THE RULES AND DON`T CAPS
Firzen [2d\]: plumemoi... seriously how'd you become 1d? ever heard of bent4?
Antogo [8k\]: lol
HoangVu [-\]: You don't make certain by saying it's not true, you make certain by reading ...
jeffywhite [2k\]: SoRRy
goacn01 [1k\]: ws19 then r19
Hobor [1k\]: who ever dunno that S19 is Ko for white then he shouldn't be 10k or higher
Hobor [1k\]: xD
Warfreak2 [4d\]: burton, black doesn't want to atari, white wants to atari
HoangVu [-\]: do your homework, please
LSF [6k\]: np
PlumeMoi [1d\]: plz type sequence correctly
dragunov2: this is a ko but white has no threat
JayG136 [4k\]: its harder to see than that hobor...
cloud [1d\]: it was typed correctly
]
;B[sh]BL[645.462]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: Warfreak2 [4d\]: s19 o16 t19 o15 p15 p13 r19 t17 s19 o14 t18 is the ko
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: bent 4 in the corner, it means that even if it's a 4 cases shape it is ko
dandalon [3k\]: bent four is dead if the surrounding stones live -> so in the end one can remove all ko threats and kill, but in the middle of this game its ko
bonta [1k\]: i think w wants to ask each other if they want to resign or not but cant communicate with each, and dont wnat to resign if the other still wants to play
Warfreak2 [4d\]: i already gave the sequence
Antogo [8k\]: haha
Antogo [8k\]: w dies
Uberdude [2d\]: PlumeMoi, please read sequence correctly
HoangVu [-\]: you spoil them warfreak
Komodo [1d\]: now dead right?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: now white is dead
brainiaq [3k\]: seems like w has enough libs to make it a ko, but then has no threats
wwwkgscom [3k?\]: T12 killed the dead group?
Burton [6k\]: I am just saying that the black group in the corner is alive
GoForFun [2k\]: B played dangeroustly
brainiaq [3k\]: now dead
goacn01 [1k\]: ws19 then r19
shinfuseki [4d\]: yup
PlumeMoi [1d\]: ohh i see the ko!!!
LSF [6k\]: still ko
PlumeMoi [1d\]: ty god
Airi [2d\]: no ko anymore
GoForFun [2k\]: Why B T12? (S19 safer)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: burton, it is alive now, but it was ko before black removed the liberty at t12
LSF [6k\]: b at s19 was better
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: Burton, you were wrong before t12
Warfreak2 [4d\]: s19 not safer
coldnight [2k\]: black  played very cool for two peapole
ArekM [5k\]: SO I UNDERSTAND WHER PRO GO IS GOING!
Warfreak2 [4d\]: t12 means that white s10 does not threaten to connect
Empty0 [8k\]: i cant understand this game
kookaburra [5k\]: s10 
Warfreak2 [4d\]: if you play s19 then white s10 is sente
snowmen [3d\]: b wins by 1 move
enz8 [4k\]: w s19  B o15 dirctly
amuna [2d\]: s10 is so big
HoangVu [-\]: Empty, welcome to the club!
yoonaX [3k\]: what if w p13
Warfreak2 [4d\]: at the moment s10 doesn't work
PaoLoBert [2k\]: white p13 is not a double threat?
Hobor [1k\]: it's small
JeffChang [9d\]: well thing is, initially w top right is kinda dead anyway
zkaje [7k\]: TIME
JeffChang [9d\]: now w got the profit by pushing throup Q line
Airi [2d\]: resign time?
dandalon [3k\]: lose on time time?
jeffywhite [2k\]: can someone explain to me p13
JeffChang [9d\]: seems not that bad for w
yoonaX [3k\]: 1 min byo yomi
Airi [2d\]: escape time
coldnight [2k\]: Yap but now Black  ga a huge wall
Warfreak2 [4d\]: no, airi, white didn't lose anything by making his dead group deader
]
;W[qk]WL[60]OW[5]C[Hobor [1k\]: wwaits.. isn't the top Ko?
ArekM [5k\]: no theay have 5 bio 
teralaser [5k\]: byoyomi is 4x1min
PlumeMoi [1d\]: how can you say that jeff?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: he did get to play q8 though
tsuchigumo [-\]: True Jeff, but b built wall in sente too
teralaser [5k\]: 5c
Hobor [1k\]: it's only takes white like 5 moves
HoangVu [-\]: white got to neutralize it somehwat
Sponge7 [-\]: wohoooooooooo
tsuchigumo [-\]: so w takes a big loss either way
Sponge7 [-\]: pro rengo rockz
HoangVu [-\]: by getting thickness
JeffChang [9d\]: yeah
iTa [-\]: k4
HoangVu [-\]: also it's a spear into black potential
Nono2010 [-\]: s19 ? 
JeffChang [9d\]: so it depends on how you judge, b extra thickness and w's pushing through
Cannon [7k?\]: dead cornet in bentley 4 positoin
JeffChang [9d\]: I'd say still b gains
JeffChang [9d\]: but it's definitely not over yet
HoangVu [-\]: top right is solid territory
HoangVu [-\]: counts much
yoonaX [3k\]: thats a huge loss in the corner I think
Warfreak2 [4d\]: w got many ko threats in top right though
tsuchigumo [-\]: I don't think anybody would opt to take w here.
womack [1k\]: W dreams of P13
]
;B[rk]BL[542.587]C[Deich [2k?\]: error SE would :P
goacn01 [1k\]: w still have ko at top-right
HoangVu [-\]: nope
limestruck [2k\]: not b either is sam players remains :)
zkaje [7k\]: ko but no libs
HoangVu [-\]: one liberty behind for ko
Cookies [4k\]: isn't w dead in the corner?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: it's not ko any more, w is dead
PlumeMoi [1d\]: r11?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: but w has ko threats to start the ko
fishcat [6d\]: no ko   dead
ecstatic [?\]: maybe a ko here
kgs1d [2k\]: peterliu = tartaric?
teralaser [5k\]: s8 ?
snowmen [3d\]: white outplayed black, m18 also Sente
JeffChang [9d\]: s10 then R11
gostking [4k\]: p13
Warfreak2 [4d\]: peter liu is tartaric and fondle
dragunov2: that's still a ko if white plays first
JeffChang [9d\]: kgs1d, yes
Warfreak2 [4d\]: and some other 9d players you forgot about :-)
kgs1d [2k\]: ths
]
;W[qn]WL[60]OW[5]C[ketchup [-\]: KGS does not forget warfreak :P
Cannon [7k?\]: maybe KGS one day will have it's own pro section
fishcat [6d\]: r10 g4
Warfreak2 [4d\]: who remembers bigticket?
ketchup [-\]: ME
PlumeMoi [1d\]: me
HoangVu [-\]: already have
]
;B[qj]BL[495.169]C[HoangVu [-\]: "high dans" lol
Warfreak2 [4d\]: bigticket was peter too :-)
ketchup [-\]: haha
Warfreak2 [4d\]: that one isn't a secret, but many more are!
]
;W[pk]WL[60]OW[5]C[fishcat [6d\]: sory not g4  q11
ketchup [-\]: what about milanmilan?
ketchup [-\]: is he related to this trip? :)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: no, milanmilan is italian
Elscouta [4k\]: if we go to the trip, will we get to know the secret ids of peter?
PlumeMoi [1d\]: or tp
Firzen [2d\]: strongest player of italy
]
;B[rn]BL[470.574]C[Cannon [7k?\]: call it KPS
Warfreak2 [4d\]: elscouta, you will learn some
Cannon [7k?\]: instead KGS
JeffChang [9d\]: haha, if Peter has any secret, I guess so : )
Warfreak2 [4d\]: the teachers will no doubt make new mystery accounts
kgs1d [2k\]: why not S19 for B?
]
;W[gn]WL[60]OW[5]C[Firzen [2d\]: just get him drunk ^^
HoangVu [-\]: Omg, su yang is selling pete
Warfreak2 [4d\]: jeff, well, we don't know all of his secret accounts
Uberdude [2d\]: you get to make the names of the accounts to confuse everyone =)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: we don't even know all YOUR secret accounts :-)
JeffChang [9d\]: ah sure, I don't know either : )
northpole: he isn't italian. he just likes soccer.
ketchup [-\]: i was trying to find out his tygem account once
ketchup [-\]: he said it got hacked :(
Warfreak2 [4d\]: northpole, milanmilan is italian.
PlumeMoi [1d\]: l3
ketchup [-\]: at least one of his did haha
Firzen [2d\]: you can ask milanmilan ^^
northpole: really?
Airi [2d\]: italian top pro
Warfreak2 [4d\]: he plays with italian style. very obvious
northpole: hmm..
fishcat [6d\]: j6
dalamyst [1k\]: lol
JeffChang [9d\]: w is surely behind, so wanna make it complicated
Firzen [2d\]: he plays the pizza-opening
cloud [1d\]: what is italian style?
wwwkgscom [3k?\]: and likes italian shapes
loveHER [6d\]: milanmilan is italian..i dont think so
Warfreak2 [4d\]: of course he is
PlumeMoi [1d\]: special spagetti joseki
ecstatic [?\]: what is pizza-opening
HoangVu [-\]: "I'll bake you a pizza if you lose."
kgs1d [2k\]: oh, the right corner w is dead
Firzen [2d\]: it's similar to the san-pasta-sei ^^
HoangVu [-\]: Then you feel, "Maybe it's not too bad if I lose."
TheBeast [?\]: play one pizza at a time
Warfreak2 [4d\]: milan milan still has an outstanding bet against breakfast!
Warfreak2 [4d\]: i look forward to that game
Warfreak2 [4d\]: 100 euro betting game
kookaburra [5k\]: heh, w still has a good chance to win! :)
limestruck [2k\]: pizza opening is to make a pizza-slice (triangle) in the corner?
Shrewd [3k\]: but then you find out he makes terrible pizza
beeko [-\]: 619 people are in this room imagine just standing in a game 600 people listening to what you have to say =P
goacn01 [1k\]: w can s19 to start ko anytime\\
ketchup [-\]: will they let us watch?
JeffChang [9d\]: huh? isn't it 200 ?
JeffChang [9d\]: Andrew?
bobo [9k\]: havwe they scheduled it warfreak?
Firzen [2d\]: did they raise it?
Cannon [7k?\]: who is 200 years old
Warfreak2 [4d\]: it was 100 euro when they agreed, i didn't hear about them raising it
HoangVu [-\]: jeff 100 + 100 = 200
JeffChang [9d\]: in my memory it's 200 :D
snowmen [3d\]: no ko
HoangVu [-\]: so they bet 100 each
JeffChang [9d\]: ah ok : )
Warfreak2 [4d\]: though milan milan did say 100 wouldn't be enough
LSF [6k\]: right now w dont get enought libs for the ko
hikaru361 [14k\]: cant white save thier group in the upper right with s19?
coldnight [2k\]: no
kgs1d [2k\]: Jeff, is K4 a good point now for B?
Firzen [2d\]: as far as I remember your memory was right most of the time jeff ^^
zdli2002 [2d\]: w resign ba
JeffChang [9d\]: K4...
Firzen [2d\]: but my memory might be wrong ^^
bobo [9k\]: no he is a lib behind
JeffChang [9d\]: well I guess that's exactly what w wants : )
bobo [9k\]: p 19 dies 
Mimas [1d\]: did milan play phoenix on kgs?
kgs1d [2k\]: why?
Moon9 [1k\]: l6 maybe?
JeffChang [9d\]: hehe thanks firzen :D
fishcat [6d\]: $10 for next move
Firzen [2d\]: it was peters move so probably FIGHT ^^
coldnight [2k\]: nuclear tesuji?
ketchup [-\]: q6
tronopolis [7k\]: 4 professionals on the same game?
zdli2002 [2d\]: k3
Cookies [4k\]: g4
Cookies [4k\]: xD
tronopolis [7k\]: on Kgs??
ketchup [-\]: cut first create aji, then think about invading?
wwwkgscom [3k?\]: chances are 1:281 to get the next move right
Cookies [4k\]: fight!
kgs1d [2k\]: how about G3?
tronopolis [7k\]: whats going on?
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
tronopolis [7k\]: apocalypsis?
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
JeffChang [9d\]: In this year, we will invite some Top pro players to be our special coaches, Luo xihe 9d pro, (Samsung Cup world champion 2006), Chen yaoye (youngest 9d pro in the world), Fang tianfeng (8d pro, National champion ) and Yu ping (6d pro, Chinese national computer Go champion).  And some other Top pro players also on discussion. Welcome to join us !
tronopolis [7k\]: ahh
Firzen [2d\]: g3 is sort of suicideish
Cookies [4k\]: how's about g4 :o
]
;B[in]BL[181.833]C[coldnight [2k\]: G3 ?!?!?! XP
HoangVu [-\]: you really don
HoangVu [-\]: don't wanna strengthen white there
blackauron [-\]: http://www.experience-go.com/  is offline to me, gives 404 error
fishcat [6d\]: ha I was right
HoangVu [-\]: the connection is fragile already
JeffChang [9d\]: probably too many guys clicking for now : )
coldnight [2k\]: site is falling
JeffChang [9d\]: please try it again later? : )
yoonaX [3k\]: fishcat you read much faster than pros ^^
]
;W[gl]WL[60]OW[5]C[wwwkgscom [3k?\]: cool, let me click on it too :)
JeffChang [9d\]: :D
Elscouta [4k\]: *clicks*
BabaAesop [7k\]: j8
Mimas [1d\]: PeteLiu style is agressive?
Firzen [2d\]: so here comes massive fighting action ^^
Firzen [2d\]: peter is very agressive when behind like this
coldnight [2k\]: fighting spirit !!
Rap [6k\]: wait,
JeffChang [9d\]: mimas: very : )
Rap [6k\]: up there,
Firzen [2d\]: he plays a very calm game when ahead in my oppinion ^^
yoonaX [3k\]: fighting is not so easy in rengo
JeffChang [9d\]: yeah ^^
Rap [6k\]: in the right upper corner,
Rap [6k\]: b dead?
HoangVu [-\]: :p
HoangVu [-\]: most fighters like that
Donete [3d\]: W
zdli2002 [2d\]: w dead
Rap [6k\]: what,,
Uberdude [2d\]: g5 i suppose
onsen13 [4k\]: j3?
Rap [6k\]: why he dont try s19
coldnight [2k\]: you mean both players are dead? 
Mimas [1d\]: i doubt it will help him here if his partner has opposite style
goacn01 [1k\]: if w start s19 then b dead.
Rap [6k\]: its make ko
HoangVu [-\]: g5 only move :p
Uberdude [2d\]: Rap, because it wastes a ko threat
zdli2002 [2d\]: s19 no use
Uberdude [2d\]: he has read it dpesn't work
CrusaderGo [10k\]: превед Россияне XD
Uberdude [2d\]: strong players read in their heads
beeko [-\]: g5 os a easy move a 6k knows that move
beeko [-\]: *is
Donete [3d\]: not time enough to arrive to kill B
Uberdude [2d\]: rather than playing out on board to find out if it works
Firzen [2d\]: I think jac and peter have a very different comception of how go should be played ^^
pkduck [2d\]: if upper w dead, b o3 is best move i think
zdli2002 [2d\]: k3
HoangVu [-\]: I think their fundamentals are the same
GJ: G5?
Firzen [2d\]: they should be ^^
Ermo [12k\]: upper white alive.b also alive
yoonaX [3k\]: yeah what about g5
boule [4k\]: w unconditionally dead in the upper right or do I miss something
hanming [12k\]: time to rock
HoangVu [-\]: they just have different preferences
]
;B[jp]BL[60]OB[5]C[coldnight [2k\]: wow
Ermo [12k\]: w o15 w alive
]
;W[dk]WL[60]OW[5]C[meuns [2k\]: why not resigning ?
fishcat [6d\]: kyus not allowed to comment
HoangVu [-\]: haha
goacn01 [1k\]: w s19 then r19, b dead.
Firzen [2d\]: w o15=gote dead
meuns [2k\]: lol
Mimas [1d\]: Why didnt w start ko when they had chance in upper right?
meuns [2k\]: no ko
ichi7e [4k\]: black doesn't need to answer s19 ^^
Ermo [12k\]: censor me then
meuns [2k\]: O16
JeffChang [9d\]: mimas: no threat then
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: o15 is at least sente^^
]
;B[bk]BL[60]OB[5]C[Firzen [2d\]: if black ignores s19 it's ko again I think
northpole: http://www.gosensations.com/?=id2&server_id=1&new_id=157
Mimas [1d\]: :) thx
meuns [2k\]: D7
northpole: check it out:)
goacn01 [1k\]: even b response to s19 still a ko
barakeel [1k\]: o15 maybe sente
tsuchigumo [-\]: w 's only chance is to start a brawl
Warfreak2 [4d\]: o15 not gote death
HoangVu [-\]: he already did
BabaAesop [7k\]: w n10
pkduck [2d\]: w d7
]
;W[lq]WL[60]OW[5]C[Firzen [2d\]: how'd you follow up andrew?
barakeel [1k\]: .s19
]
;B[pn]BL[60]OB[5]
;W[qo]WL[60]OW[5]C[ketchup [-\]: oh now q6 comes out?
krios [6k\]: there is a ko, black can leave it for the end of the game
Warfreak2 [4d\]: if you ignore o15, i will o16p13 s19 o19 t19 n16 r19 t17 s19 and it's a multi-step ko
ketchup [-\]: always thought it would be earlier
Firzen [2d\]: 5 steps
Firzen [2d\]: that IS gote
Warfreak2 [4d\]: :-)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: nope
]
;B[on]BL[60]OB[5]C[zdli2002 [2d\]: q6 is bad
]
;W[om]WL[60]OW[5]
;B[nn]BL[60]OB[5]C[JeffChang [9d\]: oh new fighting...
Warfreak2 [4d\]: it's a 2-step ko
]
;W[ml]WL[60]OW[5]C[ketchup [-\]: how is this bad?
Cannon [7k?\]: zhe battle begins
meuns [2k\]: ^^
ketchup [-\]: cut that hurts white is never bad!
Firzen [2d\]: 2d just trying to be smarter then pro
Warfreak2 [4d\]: w wins o13 ko by throwing in at t18, firzen, then that's direct ko
zdli2002 [2d\]: w want to fight
BabaAesop [7k\]: how do people type w j9
Cannon [7k?\]: I bet 2d has IQ of 212
Irrdan [5d\]: b seens in control
Warfreak2 [4d\]: so it's a two-step ko if you ignore o15
BabaAesop [7k\]: lol
BabaAesop [7k\]: predicting mid sentence
meuns [2k\]: no IQ at go
HoangVu [-\]: w j9
HoangVu [-\]: like that
Firzen [2d\]: ah I see
Warfreak2 [4d\]: also i can play o13 if you ignore o15
HoangVu [-\]: Lol
Firzen [2d\]: missed that
]
;B[ln]BL[60]OB[5]C[amuna [2d\]: nobody dies twice
Ermo [12k\]: stephen havking have 212 iq
yithril [2d\]: KILL
Firzen [2d\]: that doesn't work to escape ^^
HoangVu [-\]: white alive
Warfreak2 [4d\]: doesn't it?
Firzen [2d\]: maybe it does now after p7
BabaAesop [7k\]: stephen hawking is dead
loookj [2k\]: white group upper right dead?
GJ: how many hours in Go games for average as a pro?
pkduck [2d\]: r11
BabaAesop [7k\]: hes just a robot now
Batavia [4k\]: 600 observers, not bad
Warfreak2 [4d\]: if i play p12, you hane, then i play q11
kgs1d [2k\]: w lost?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: you can't even q12 because i throw in
Fokatukc [6k\]: stephen hawking is no robot
Firzen [2d\]: I can cut ant connect
Firzen [2d\]: then atari you from the outside
bobo [9k\]: no buty i wonder what will happen if he loses his last muscle in his eye
drschlaper [6k?\]: l8
bobo [9k\]: he wont be able to communicate
]
;W[kl]WL[60]OW[5]
;B[nq]BL[60]OB[5]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: firzen, i have the s12 throwin if you cut
BabaAesop [7k\]: you mean the muscle in his finger?
bobo [9k\]: no
bobo [9k\]: it uses his eye
bobo [9k\]: and a lasder
Firzen [2d\]: I've been stupid again
bobo [9k\]: laser
Warfreak2 [4d\]: o15 ignore p13 o16 p12 p11 q11 q12 s12 
]
;W[op]WL[60]OW[5]C[BabaAesop [7k\]: omg
bobo [9k\]: apple designe4d it
Firzen [2d\]: yeah no need to I saw it ^^
Warfreak2 [4d\]: so it's definitely sente
kookaburra [5k\]: if b live here wost the game?
BabaAesop [7k\]: thats crazy
bobo [9k\]: he uses his eye twitched
meuns [2k\]: w already losts
]
;B[np]BL[60]OB[5]C[bobo [9k\]: to pick what he says
bobo [9k\]: funny thinkg is
bobo [9k\]: all macs havce a speach program
Firzen [2d\]: I guess we'll see a nice tesuji now
bobo [9k\]: that sounds exaclty like hawking
cloud [1d\]: this result seems quite bad for white
Firzen [2d\]: at least thats what usually happens in tartarics games
mdf116 [1d\]: m2 looks intersting
BabaAesop [7k\]: w l5
cloud [1d\]: m2 o2?
Cannon [7k?\]: hawking radiation attack
Cannon [7k?\]: LASER BEAM CANNON
bobo [9k\]: ifyou hacve a mac make it talk you will laugh 
WBuffet [4d\]: this is a rengo?
HoangVu [-\]: l4
onsen13 [4k\]: h3
]
;W[lp]WL[60]OW[4]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: it's super-effective!
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
Warfreak2 [4d\]: there's your tesuji firzen
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
JeffChang [9d\]: If you're interested, please check out our website, or contact Jeff or Peter directly, thanks!
zkaje [7k\]: wana kill
Firzen [2d\]: I am missing out on the awesomeness up to now ^^
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: nice move
drschlaper [6k?\]: j8
barakeel [1k\]: what is so nice about killing his own stones
pkduck [2d\]: looks like punching b
Firzen [2d\]: alright now I'd make a guess about its purpose ^^
theend13 [5k\]: m5
Sixto [5k\]: m5 maybe?
Firzen [2d\]: m5 doesn't work
]
;B[or]BL[60]OB[4]C[krios [6k\]: w wont l5 ?
LSF [6k\]: m5 is shape move
PlumeMoi [1d\]: m7
]
;W[pr]WL[60]OW[4]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: thanks to peter and jeff teaching me, i won a tournament at the beginning of march, destroying three british 4d players
Cannon [7k?\]: M4 is brilliant
Cannon [7k?\]: GENIUS
Warfreak2 [4d\]: you can too if you experience go in china! </salespitch>
BabaAesop [7k\]: lol
JeffChang [9d\]: ^^  thanks andrew ^^
HoangVu [-\]: 3?
Firzen [2d\]: you won the rengo tournament at london open ^^
Uberdude [2d\]: xml parse error!
DanielFox [2k\]: Sign up now and receive three large shamwows
barakeel [1k\]: i would k3
cloud [1d\]: congrats warfreak
denote11 [4k?\]: lol
bobo [9k\]: im pretty sure it used to use like his eyes and eye brows etc , but he is down to like his last muscle
kookaburra [5k\]: Warfreak2, how long you visti in china was?
bobo [9k\]: when he loses thaT
]
;B[lo]BL[60]OB[3]C[pkduck [2d\]: k7 i bet
Warfreak2 [4d\]: i went for the full two months
BabaAesop [7k\]: yikes
Warfreak2 [4d\]: actually i stayed three weeks afterwards too because the flight back was cheaper
meuns [2k\]: did you eat dog ? :D
Warfreak2 [4d\]: no
BabaAesop [7k\]: i would
]
;W[jq]WL[60]OW[4]C[loveHER [6d\]: did dog eat you?
Firzen [2d\]: dog might have eaten him xD
HoangVu [-\]: lol
meuns [2k\]: hehehe
Firzen [2d\]: ^^
Warfreak2 [4d\]: dog is available in some korean restaurants if you want to eat dog
TheBeast [?\]: dog eat dog
Jormaz: there werent many dogs around to eat :(
BabaAesop [7k\]: i hear you can get snake in china
a11111 [12k\]: can someone explain s19?
loveHER [6d\]: i only ate rice when i was in china ~_~
HoangVu [-\]: doesn't work
HoangVu [-\]: the end
HoangVu [-\]: :p
JeffChang [9d\]: normally not in north China, a11111 :P
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: you can eat EVERYTHING in china:)
]
;B[ll]BL[60]OB[3]C[nodan [-\]: s19 too slow, b captures outside first
JeffChang [9d\]: ah sorry, it's to babaaesop
Cookies [4k\]: dumplings!
BabaAesop [7k\]: harsh
Frauling [8d\]: o.O
loveHER [6d\]: breakfest...rice, lunch...rice, dinner....rice!
drschlaper [6k?\]: its 4 in the corner... but w dead outside
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: if white s19, he plans to make a bent 4 in the corner, but b captures first
Jormaz: warfreak2 did you eat that.. umm.. donut tasting thing? some sorta vegetable
Frauling [8d\]: brave move
LSF [6k\]: there is lots of chineese food in China
BabaAesop [7k\]: playing go in china is one of my favorite vacation ideas
JeffChang [9d\]: S19 doesn't mean any, cos w top right is short of liberty and it's dead
cloud [1d\]: you can eat dog anywhere you want to... as long as there is a dog around
Frauling [8d\]: mess up the situation
]
;W[lk]WL[60]OW[4]C[tsuchigumo [-\]: 100 million finned fish killed every year for Chinese soup.
barakeel [1k\]: m8 is wierd 
Rap [6k\]: no,
Rap [6k\]: its calling cut
a11111 [12k\]: sushi ?_?
goacn01 [1k\]: no, ws19 is a ko
zkaje [7k\]: eat a man
Cannon [7k?\]: I don't like finnish people anyway
nodan [-\]: s19 not ko
PlumeMoi [1d\]: shushi is not chinese
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: w s19 isnt a ko, b captures one step before the ko
]
;B[lm]BL[60]OB[3]C[paintgirl: you dont like a whole group of people?
HoangVu [-\]: you can eat cat too
a11111 [12k\]: japanese?
BHgodlike: m8 pro move ?
PlumeMoi [1d\]: yep
Batavia [4k\]: anyone counted what is happening if w plays  S19 in the top right?
freshmate [9k\]: ...
brainiaq [3k\]: yes
PlumeMoi [1d\]: k9
loveHER [6d\]: dont start with s19 again..
Shymon [8k\]: all of these are technically pro moves lol
LSF [6k\]: w will kill m5
brainiaq [3k\]: w is a lib behind
WaterAndGo [3k?\]:  w s19 isnt a ko, b captures one step before the ko
BabaAesop [7k\]: s9 seki?
nodan [-\]: [s19\] scroll up and read 
Cannon [7k?\]: S19 is bent 4 cornered
]
;W[qi]WL[60]OW[4]C[goacn01 [1k\]: w s19, then r19, b dead.
drschlaper [6k?\]: ws19 is useless... look at the number of moves,,,and w dead outside
Cannon [7k?\]: it will kill you with laser
Elscouta [4k\]: next person to say s19 should get banned :|
]
;B[rj]BL[60]OB[3]C[Mooshiro: from the bginning j6 and k4, black was walking into white's game
PlumeMoi [1d\]: s19
HoangVu [-\]: a pro self atari still a pro move
Jep [16k\]: s19
HiwaKaoru [10k\]: s19
TheBeast [?\]: s19
brainiaq [3k\]: banned for focusing on the game
cloud [1d\]: wait! what about t19?
EmincanY53 [2k\]: s29 not good
BabaAesop [7k\]: 19 is useless
EmincanY53 [2k\]: s19*
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: W TOP RIGHT IS DEAD
JeffChang [9d\]: nothing at s19
arindam [6k\]: there's a really famous pro self-atari on youtube
LSF [6k\]: s29 is a tesuji
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: End of discusion
PlumeMoi [1d\]: yeee t19 great!
]
;W[kk]WL[60]OW[4]C[a11111 [12k\]: so much chating +_+
telchar [1d\]: r19 
Batavia [4k\]: oh boy, i thought i asked a inocent question
JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
JeffChang [9d\]: This is a promotion game for "Experience Go in China 2009"!  PeteLiu 2p, Benhu 3p, jackjin 2p and JeffChang 9d will be our teachers!
BabaAesop [7k\]: b n9?
JeffChang [9d\]: In this year, we will invite some Top pro players to be our special coaches, Luo xihe 9d pro, (Samsung Cup world champion 2006), Chen yaoye (youngest 9d pro in the world), Fang tianfeng (8d pro, National champion ) and Yu ping (6d pro, Chinese national computer Go champion).  And some other Top pro players also on discussion. Welcome to join us !
Tenji [3k?\]: don't talk about the game folks
cloud [1d\]: b n9 is very bad
a11111 [12k\]: +_+
Cannon [7k?\]: I would play S19
Jep [16k\]: If w is dead in top right, he has lost??
Cannon [7k?\]: just to show how good of a move it really is
drschlaper [6k?\]: h3
Shymon [8k\]: do you learn how to count libs in a capture race there jeff? i think alot of the kibitzers tneed thatt skill
]
;B[mk]BL[60]OB[3]C[bonta [1k\]: b is going to die!
Cannon [7k?\]: BUT YOU GUYS ARE STUBBORN
krios [6k\]: s19 cant give anything
WaterAndGo [3k?\]:  w s19 isnt a ko, b captures one step before the ko
]
;W[mj]WL[60]OW[4]
;B[nk]BL[60]OB[3]C[a11111 [12k\]: =_=
yoonaX [3k\]: cloud maybe its not :d
cloud [1d\]: yeah what do i know
cloud [1d\]: haha
vroom [12k\]: hehe, I found the link to the self atari: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1FvPxmmfE
BabaAesop [7k\]: w not looking so good anymore
JeffChang [9d\]: shymon, that's easy : )     If you want we can teach, but it's mainly about pantience : )
barakeel [1k\]: black will lose the game
barakeel [1k\]: now
KingLouis [9k?\]: wow
zdli2002 [2d\]: ?
LSF [6k\]: ok, i admit w losed this one
cloud [1d\]: seemed like a nice squeeze for white
BabaAesop [7k\]: o10
KingLouis [9k?\]: pros
Shymon [8k\]: i know i was refering to all the s19 comments >_>
LSF [6k\]: i go to eat
JeffChang [9d\]: seems hard for w to continue, yes
caidao [-\]: ！！！！
]
;W[nj]WL[60]OW[4]
;B[nm]BL[60]OB[3]C[barakeel [1k\]: hard for black
Cannon [7k?\]: S19 is winning move
caidao [-\]: 怎么搞哦
Cannon [7k?\]: unstoppable
TheBeast [?\]: Se says  s18 dead, so it's alive
PlumeMoi [1d\]: b alive
BabaAesop [7k\]: m10
HoangVu [-\]: k 11
BabaAesop [7k\]: or m11
]
;W[il]WL[60]OW[4]C[bonta [1k\]: n9 was the winning move!
]
;B[nr]BL[60]OB[3]C[WaterAndGo [3k?\]: p9 is forced
Floyd [3d\]: 怎么啦
zdli2002 [2d\]: over
WaterAndGo [3k?\]: or not
]
;W[ip]WL[60]OW[4]C[caidao [-\]: 我怎么没段位
caidao [-\]: 我不太会
Floyd [3d\]: ...
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: w lost now ~_~
BabaAesop [7k\]: looks like black lives
mightywill [1d\]: r2
Ermo [12k\]: haha, calidao speaking random
caidao [-\]: 3段
Floyd [3d\]: 怎么
caidao [-\]: 教教我
drschlaper [6k?\]: m10 cut
Ermo [12k\]: ;D
]
;B[qr]BL[60]OB[3]C[Floyd [3d\]: 下棋呀
]
;W[ps]WL[60]OW[4]C[TheBeast [?\]: caidao asks why not play s19
goacn01 [1k\]: w s19, then r19
caidao [-\]: 没人和我下
caidao [-\]: ！！！！
]
;B[rr]BL[60]OB[3]C[barakeel [1k\]: r19 so bad
Ermo [12k\]: haha, u are translator for random language
MajaMitic [14k\]: w should have exchanged p5 i think
Floyd [3d\]: 你把rank set to [?\]
Rap [6k\]: b amzing
a11111 [12k\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
Rap [6k\]: amazing
krios [6k\]: i think b must ignore s19?
caidao [-\]: 刚才赢了个2段也没记录
Floyd [3d\]: 再下幾局
caidao [-\]: 哦
]
;W[ro]WL[60]OW[4]C[DanielFox [2k\]: 认真我们努力提供咸菜天堂
PlumeMoi [1d\]: p5
mightywill [1d\]: ko
Cannon [7k?\]: ha foreigners
Ermo [12k\]: hahahahaha ;D ;)
Cannon [7k?\]: EXECUTE THEM
Tenji [3k?\]: This is in the English Game Room. Please stick to English.
Floyd [3d\]: it's ok for me
Cannon [7k?\]: and with execution I mean kill
Cannon [7k?\]: and with kill I mean murder
]
;B[hk]BL[60]OB[3]C[Floyd [3d\]: but he speaks chinese
Firzen [2d\]: can someone ban him?
Ermo [12k\]: hahaha, sorry i dont speak random
Firzen [2d\]: I mean cannon
BabaAesop [7k\]: why no m10
BabaAesop [7k\]: o i seee
BabaAesop [7k\]: nm
Cetoo [3k\]: agreed with you, Firzen
Firzen [2d\]: h9 aiming at that cut ^^
Firzen [2d\]: without it m10 is lose ladder
]
;W[ik]WL[60]OW[4]
;B[hl]BL[60]OB[3]C[BabaAesop [7k\]: yeah
beeko [-\]: You can just censor no need to ban                           
nidza92 [-\]: pete will get mad again
PlumeMoi [1d\]: k6
]
;W[hm]WL[60]OW[4]C[Floyd [3d\]: w die in top right corner?
nzblack [4d\]: why does white continuing this game anyway?
MUHAHAHA [2d\]: w has to resign soon ~_~
]
;B[im]BL[60]OB[3]C[JeffChang [9d\]: already I can imagine :P
BabaAesop [7k\]: cause its promotional game
Firzen [2d\]: wow I like r2
Firzen [2d\]: just to make p5 sente ^^
WBuffet [4d\]: b dead?
vroom [12k\]: in rengo you always can blame your partner when you lose :)
WBuffet [4d\]: G-10
Cannon [7k?\]: and with murder I mean assasination
Firzen [2d\]: b alive
Empty0 [8k\]: which is why i like rengo
Cetoo [3k\]: It's good to see such pro games, makes you realize how being a 2p can be tough, sometimes :-)
Batavia [4k\]: blaming your partnet is just a sign of weakness
jjermann [2d?\]: this looks hopeless for white
RunningFox [2d\]: still not over?
Empty0 [8k\]: we are all humans here
nidza92 [-\]: weeknes of your partenr:))
Firzen [2d\]: if g10 black can just go for l11 to make miai of both cuts if you try to lose ladder WBuffet
krios [6k\]: r3 q3 q5 ?
JeffChang [9d\]: looks hopefully right
Ludmila [6k\]: o8
JeffChang [9d\]: hopeless*
beeko [-\]: Im not human how dare you call me im smarter than that 
RunningFox [2d\]: hehe
]
;W[hj]WL[60]OW[3]C[mightywill [1d\]: k5
brainiaq [3k\]: time for magic
Empty0 [8k\]: ok, except beeko
RunningFox [2d\]: yes, c
]
;B[gk]BL[60]OB[3]C[Firzen [2d\]: I wonder if w should exchange p5
Cannon [7k?\]: and with assasination I mean slaughter
TheBeast [?\]: cannon, go get help
NguyenVu [7k\]: F9
SenYuki [3d\]: k6
Ermo [12k\]: ladder work for b
Floyd [3d\]: can w n4 kill b?
pkduck [2d\]: b turns agreedy i bet b is going to lose the game
]
;W[jo]WL[60]OW[3]C[kgs1d [2k\]: b wants to kill all?
Cannon [7k?\]: and with slaughter I mean putting an end to it
krios [6k\]: n4 n5 and then ? 
Firzen [2d\]: any admin here?
HoangVu [-\]: w kill all
meuns [2k\]: admins ?
mightywill [1d\]: b has to live
meuns [2k\]: for what ?
beeko [-\]: You can just censor him.......
Dorallen [2k\]: firzen, use the censor
]
;B[fl]BL[60]OB[3]C[Floyd [3d\]: n3 one eye krios
Waya2512 [?\]: w can't kill :(
Uberdude [2d\]: b got p1 to help
krios [6k\]: n4 n5 p5 o5 n7 ?
dalamyst [1k\]: k6
Dorallen [2k\]: because right now,  im as annoyed about Firzen then he is about cannon
meuns [2k\]: no they can't
PlumeMoi [1d\]: p5
Floyd [3d\]: oh
Ermo [12k\]: go black ;)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: b doesn't need p1, m2 just makes an eye
Firzen [2d\]: I'd like w q3 ^^
Floyd [3d\]: q3 b make one eye
]
;W[gj]WL[60]OW[3]C[Floyd [3d\]: yeah
]
;B[gm]BL[60]OB[3]C[JeffChang [9d\]: http://www.experience-go.com/
KingCobra [3d\]: P5 sente zzz
]
;W[hn]WL[60]OW[3]C[Floyd [3d\]: if b is alive 
JeffChang [9d\]: Hopefully to see you all in Beijing in the summer, thanks ; )
a11111 [12k\]: Experience go in China is a 2 month study program every summer in Beijing, China.In this year we will invite several Top pro players in China ,including Luo Xihe 9p, Chen Yaoye, and Fang Tianfeng 8p .
PlumeMoi [1d\]: jeff youre pronostic.?
]
;B[fj]BL[60]OB[3]C[mightywill [1d\]: n11
Firzen [2d\]: thats why w q3
]
;W[jn]WL[60]OW[3]C[Cannon [7k?\]: I find firzen annoying as well
]
;B[fn]BL[60]OB[3]C[krios [6k\]: what if b r3 Floyd ? 
Floyd [3d\]: why w still playing 
Firzen [2d\]: removes the b sentes
brainiaq [3k\]: uhh
meuns [2k\]: rematch !
RunningFox [2d\]: good game
LeeWang [1p\]: thx
beeko [-\]: gg
Ermo [12k\]: whoho
jackjin [2p\]: thx
Cannon [7k?\]: firzen such a nuisance
dalamyst [1k\]: thanks
Ermo [12k\]: !!
meuns [2k\]: rerematch !
drschlaper [6k?\]: gg ty
drau [5k\]: gg
Floyd [3d\]: cool
TheBeast [?\]: S19
PeteLiu [2p\]: Thanks
JeffChang [9d\]: Thanks for Peter, Ben, Jack and Leewang!! ^^
Benhu [3p\]: thx
iTa [-\]: nice
Cannon [7k?\]: I dislike you firzen
Frauling [8d\]: thx
Batavia [4k\]: since game
keijo: gg
meuns [2k\]: rematch rematch !
Firzen [2d\]: thank you
meuns [2k\]: ^^
CJ [14k\]: wow great game
JeffChang [9d\]: Now Ben will review this game : )
Repacse [?\]: thanks
BHgodlike: who will rev ?
BHgodlike: ok
BHgodlike: thx
HoangVu [-\]: gogo ben
Floyd [3d\]: review the game in chinese...
Floyd [3d\]: ha
JeffChang [9d\]: definitely in English : )
PeteLiu [2p\]: In ....
a11111 [12k\]: maybe GuoJuan can review?
])
